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Which Mystery would you Prefer to Never be Explained?


Canon Claude

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Forget the things you do crave an explanation for; I'm talking about those big secrets that you would honestly prefer stay hidden in the shadows because the reveal would take something away from it. 

For me, that's the Summerhall disaster. I don't really know how that can ultimately mean anything substantial. Aegon wanted dragons to restore Targaryen authority, it didn't work, and a lot of people got killed unnecessarily. The only way it could really mean anything is the fact that Rhaegar Targaryen was born when the event happened, so I'm assuming that it's another metaphorical "waking of a dragon" which occurred in the third D & E story. Or Rhaegar really does become the father of the PTWP, and thus the ASOIAF series becomes yet another "Chosen One" narrative. Either way, I don't want either of those conclusions, so I'd rather the Summerhall tragedy is just kept in the shadows.

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4 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Jon's parentage. All those damn arguments won't get an answer worth the time

And Jon is Ned's son in name and deed. What if Rhaegar gave half the chromosomes? 

This is what Jon desires the most. To get to know where he belongs and to belong somewhere. That somewhere might be House Targaryen, I hope.

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I don't really want to find out how all the prophecy and mythology surrounding the PtwP, Last Hero and Azor Ahai is connected. I want to find out a bit more about it obviously, but I don't want all the answers. It's the whole mystery surrounding the various myths and procedures is so appealing, as well as their inconsistencies. If at some point it's all neatly tied up, with a bow on top, it would take away a lot of the magic.

Luckily I think that GRRM feels the same about this, so I think he'll still leave us wondering after the last book.

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4 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Jon's parentage. All those damn arguments won't get an answer worth the time

And Jon is Ned's son in name and deed. What if Rhaegar gave half the chromosomes? 

Yep, I don't remember who (recently) sold me on this (might be you) but I think it's a good option to have.

 

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I would enjoy not really knowing what happens to Little Finger when all the dust settles.  Let it be a mystery what becomes of him.  OK, maybe hoping for another series of novellas about Little Finger's machinations in Lys or Mereen or Volantis is pushing hope a bit.  

I enjoy the mystery of the bloodline magics in ASOIAF.  It would be fine to not know what/where/when/how/why of all of that.  

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1 hour ago, CamiloRP said:

Yep, I don't remember who (recently) sold me on this (might be you) but I think it's a good option to have.

 

Sorry, but Martin has already said that we will learn, and so will Jon himself. 

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5 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Sorry, but Martin has already said that we will learn, and so will Jon himself. 

Slightly disappointing tho not unexpected, I know I'll probably like whatever George does tho, it has been that way in the past

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5 hours ago, HerblYY said:

This is what Jon desires the most. To get to know where he belongs and to belong somewhere.

He does. We search for what our heart desires the most and finally find it where we started everything. Home is where the heart is. 

He belongs to the North. To Ghost. To House Stark. To Winterfell. To Arya. To his pack mates (who maybe cousins..... or not). 

Nature chose him to be a Stark, even if maybe a Targaryen was his father. Just look at him and you'll see. 

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2 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

He does. We search for what our heart desires the most and finally find it where we started everything. Home is where the heart is. 

He belongs to the North. To Ghost. To House Stark. To Winterfell. To Arya. To his pack mates (who maybe cousins..... or not). 

Nature chose him to be a Stark, even if maybe a Targaryen was his father. Just look at him and you'll see. 

If he learned anything in his entire life, that's for sure he learned that he is not a Stark, no matter of his nature.

Maybe Robb legitimzed him, but he doesn't need to be legitimized at all.

And if you think about it, there is no point of making a Targaryen bastard. That changes nothing, it does not improve his character.

 

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11 hours ago, HerblYY said:

 That somewhere might be House Targaryen, I hope

maybe he'll change his last name to Sand when he finds out he was begotten and born in Dorne :P

or to Sandstorm, as exact position of the Tower of Joy seems uncertain

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3 hours ago, HerblYY said:

If he learned anything in his entire life, that's for sure he learned that he is not a Stark

He has learned that he is a bastard who needs to know his place. But he has always wanted to be a Stark, like Robb. So many incidents in the text to illustrate this. 

When it is revealed Lyanna is his mom and she married his father secretely (I'm not a Rhaegar-for-sure guy) who will he embrace? His mother's brother's culture (the guy who was his father figure) or some guy who just gave 23 chromosomes?

Nature could've given him blonde hair and lilac eyes, but it didn't. He is a Stark by blood, appearance and nature for a reason/s.

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34 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

He has learned that he is a bastard who needs to know his place. But he has always wanted to be a Stark, like Robb. So many incidents in the text to illustrate this. 

When it is revealed Lyanna is his mom and she married his father secretely (I'm not a Rhaegar-for-sure guy) who will he embrace? His mother's brother's culture (the guy who was his father figure) or some guy who just gave 23 chromosomes?

Nature could've given him blonde hair and lilac eyes, but it didn't. He is a Stark by blood, appearance and nature for a reason/s.

Again, he always wanted to be a Stark, but he couldn't be one, because he's someone else. 

Would you call Sansa a Tully or whatever else just because he isn't a type of Starks? No, you won't. Would you call Lord Rickard Stark not a Stark because of his "southron ambitions"? Ned is the direct opposite of his father. No you won't. People change, dude. 

The stereotypes that house Stark or any other house currently has might be different from what were several years ago.

 

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30 minutes ago, HerblYY said:

Again, he always wanted to be a Stark, but he couldn't be one, because he's someone else. 

Emboldened text

He couldn't be one , because his mom's ID wasn't revealed yet. But will be

Italicized text

Someone who? Targ? No way. I said why more than once earlier

32 minutes ago, HerblYY said:

Would you call Sansa a Tully or whatever else just because he isn't a type of Starks? No, you won't.

Sansa isn't a bastard with unknown/uncertain parentage. Rickard too. And I never considered Sansa as a true Stark. True Starks don't run after tales of knights, maidens and princes or be whimsical and obnoxius and snobby. They cant afford to be so in the cold and harsh north when winter comes.

But Sansa is changing, playing the game, becoming a Stark and learning life's not a fairy tale

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5 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Emboldened text

He couldn't be one , because his mom's ID wasn't revealed yet. But will be

Italicized text

Someone who? Targ? No way. I said why more than once earlier

Sansa isn't a bastard with unknown/uncertain parentage. Rickard too. And I never considered Sansa as a true Stark. True Starks don't run after tales of knights, maidens and princes or be whimsical and obnoxius and snobby. They cant afford to be so in the cold and harsh north when winter comes.

But Sansa is changing, playing the game, becoming a Stark and learning life's not a fairy tale

True Starks? What are you talking about? As far as we know, not every Stark had been like you say. Ned, Jon, Benjen and mayybe Robb had this kind of nature, but neither Brandon or their father had this kind of personality. Isn't Bran a Stark because he wanted to be a knight and liked climbing just like his Flint ancestor? So neither Arya or Lyanna are worth calling starks because they aren't the melancolic, honorable type? Wasn't Brandon the Shipwright a true Stark bc he wanted to explore, loved the sea and abandoned his kingdom for exploring western regions? Isn't Rickon a true Stark because he has a bit wilderness in his personality?

Weren't they Starks? According to you they are not.

Wasn't Rhaegar that melancholic, so honorable, silent type that Eddard too had been? 

Yes, he was. 

If he is a trueborn son of Rhaegar (I, personally am not sure about it yet), he is half Stark too, but still a Targaryen.l, wether you like it or not.

True Starks don't run after tales of knights? Dude, you should stop talking bullshit. Everyone is different,.and has to be different.

You can choose your friends, but you cannot choose your family.

Imagine Jon having an inside monologue at some point, like "What is House Targaryen to me?....My own blood." You can't abandon your own blood, especially if you are so honorable.

If R+L=J, then I hope that Jon will look at Daenerys as his kin, not as the Mad King's daugther.

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5 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Sansa isn't a bastard with unknown/uncertain parentage. Rickard too. And I never considered Sansa as a true Stark. True Starks don't run after tales of knights, maidens and princes or be whimsical and obnoxius and snobby. They cant afford to be so in the cold and harsh north when winter comes.

But Sansa is changing, playing the game, becoming a Stark and learning life's not a fairy tale

Sansa dreams of knights and princes, because she's a child. Bran has similar childlike fantasies of knighthood, and so does Jon. Jon also dreams of being a heroic honourable brave ranger, his fantasies are simply more boyish, whereas Sansa's are typically girly. Arya is different because she's a tomboy type, and struggling with the gender conform expectations of her. She also knows she can't be a knight, so she's not as dreamy as the others. She's also the most impulsive of the bunch, so within her character it makes sense that she's not contemplating her bright and shiny future all the time.

We have no idea what Lyanna dreamed of, what Ned was like as a child, or Benjen. They may have had similarly romantic ideas as kids, but we don't get their POVs at that age. 

You can't say that Sansa is typically Tully either, cause Catelyn is quite different as well, although we don't know what Cat was like when she was 11. Perhaps Sansa resembles young Lysa a bit, but we don't really know that either, do we? The only reason why we get the idea that Sansa is unlike all the other Starks, is because we're constantly reminded of how much she looks like Cat, and because she likes pretty things (Jon too thinks that Jaime is what a king should look like, with his golden hair and golden armour). But looks and character aren't the same thing, something Sansa has learned the hard way. And an 11yo child, and an adult are two very different things. Who knows how much Sansa would've grown into her Stark roots, if they had all just stayed in Winterfell, and lived happily ever after?

I know I had plenty of silly, romantic and unrealistic dreams when I was 11. I probably was a terrible judge of character at that age too. Children are children, and children are usually silly. Arya is a very appealing character, but Sansa is by far the most realistic child in the series, it's sad that she gets so much hate for simply acting her age, whereas Jon, Arya and Bran often don't really come across as actual children. Sometimes they do, and their adventures don't always allow for them to behave the way a child their age would, but Sansa.. Sansa is the perfect depiction of an 11 yo girl. She's exactly as naive, and misguided as a girl, who grew up in a sheltered environment, of that age would be. You can't blame her for who she was made, and taught to be.

Sansa was brought up to become a lady. We can assume that all Stark girls were raised in a similar way. Arya resists those gender roles, and coincidentally that happened to be the same with Lyanna. There is no indication whatsoever that this was the case with all girls in the Stark family throughout time. We've simply only been introduced to 3 Stark girls. In fact it appears that Lyanna was training her fighting skills in secret, so it stands to reason that it has never been acceptable in the Stark family for a girl to fight. If all Stark women had always been similar to Arya and Lyanna, some lord would probably at some point said: "you know what, nevermind! Just give them swords, and let's cut that needlework crap. They all have the hands of a blacksmith anyway..." Instead it appears that Ned is the first one to allow it, and only after Arya got her hands on her own sword anyway.

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