butterweedstrover Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 People aren't going to like this answer, but... I think it should be the others. Summerhall, The PwwP, the Valonqar, Azor Ahai, Jenny of Oldstone, the Ghost of high heart, Aegon VI, Dany, Quiathe, etc. are all connected. One answer will solve all these separate questions. Saying that these segments won't have answers bellies the point that their is a secondary story being told that is hidden in plain view. "His is the song of ice and fire" (ACoK). But the others/white walkers, I want them to remain ambiguous. One of the most effective forms of story telling was in Majora's Mask. The game set up ancient civilizations but did not provide answers to their origins. Once you provide that, the mystery is gone. The other set of questions are about humans we do know who have lived in this world; bloodraven, Shiera Seastar, Summerhall, the prophecy, the mad king, the tourney at Harrenhall, the Valonqar, all these are related to the people who have lived before the first book and still affect the characters to this day. They are haunted by the mistakes of the past, and the answers will be provided. The others are mystical creatures who don't need answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 hour ago, HerblYY said: If R+L=J, then I hope that Jon will look at Daenerys as his kin, not as the Mad King's daugther Sure. Same here. But even mad King's daughter is better than hot aunt incest (especially if she ends up like in the abomination). I'm conflicted about Jon Dany. Mostly don't want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manderly's Rat Cook Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 32 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said: People aren't going to like this answer, but... I think it should be the others. Summerhall, The PwwP, the Valonqar, Azor Ahai, Jenny of Oldstone, the Ghost of high heart, Aegon VI, Dany, Quiathe, etc. are all connected. One answer will solve all these separate questions. Saying that these segments won't have answers bellies the point that their is a secondary story being told that is hidden in plain view. "His is the song of ice and fire" (ACoK). But the others/white walkers, I want them to remain ambiguous. One of the most effective forms of story telling was in Majora's Mask. The game set up ancient civilizations but did not provide answers to their origins. Once you provide that, the mystery is gone. The other set of questions are about humans we do know who have lived in this world; bloodraven, Shiera Seastar, Summerhall, the prophecy, the mad king, the tourney at Harrenhall, the Valonqar, all these are related to the people who have lived before the first book and still affect the characters to this day. They are haunted by the mistakes of the past, and the answers will be provided. The others are mystical creatures who don't need answers. I agree with you, the show portraying them as pure evil, and making them so visible, was very disappointing to me. I disagree with you that there will be one simple answer to all the prophecies and legends though. I do think they're all connected, but I think they will apply to several people, since not one person can defeat the long night/WW alone, so I think there will be a sort of group of "chosen ones", who need to join forces at some point. Presumably that group will include Dany, Jon, Bran, Arya and others (perhaps a total of seven). Those four are the ones I'm relatively sure of. I think Tyrion might be one of them as well, but I'm not sure of the other two (if there will be seven that is, but it would be nice if the faith of the seven tied in somewhere, cause at this point it seems pretty random religion still). I think all prophecies cover some elements of story about a group of individuals with specific gifts, that can end the long night, but if you look at legends and prophecies from Yi Ti, and other far away places, they tend to differ too much from the AA/LH/PtwP ones to all apply to one person. However I'm also sure there's some truth to them. In real world mythology there often is overlap, as well as significant differences between cultures. Given that in the books there is always at least some actual truth in the stories, my guess is that they're all accounts of the same events, but starting from different perspectives to begin with. I think the faith of the seven basically tied together that there were multiple people involved, but forgot to remember, what these people were actually doing and who they were. But maybe that's just wishful thinking, because it has always bothered me that the faith of the seven, has virtually no stories or mythology that we know of. Like... What's the point?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron the Daring Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 47 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said: Sure. Same here. But even mad King's daughter is better than hot aunt incest (especially if she ends up like in the abomination). I'm conflicted about Jon Dany. Mostly don't want it. When I started reading ASOIAF I shipped them sooo much.(It might be because I started reading the books right after the S7 finale) However reading the books made me think like there's just so many different, yet interesting options for these two, but I could still accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron the Daring Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Manderly's Rat Cook said: Sansa dreams of knights and princes, because she's a child. Bran has similar childlike fantasies of knighthood, and so does Jon. Jon also dreams of being a heroic honourable brave ranger, his fantasies are simply more boyish, whereas Sansa's are typically girly. Arya is different because she's a tomboy type, and struggling with the gender conform expectations of her. She also knows she can't be a knight, so she's not as dreamy as the others. She's also the most impulsive of the bunch, so within her character it makes sense that she's not contemplating her bright and shiny future all the time. We have no idea what Lyanna dreamed of, what Ned was like as a child, or Benjen. They may have had similarly romantic ideas as kids, but we don't get their POVs at that age. You can't say that Sansa is typically Tully either, cause Catelyn is quite different as well, although we don't know what Cat was like when she was 11. Perhaps Sansa resembles young Lysa a bit, but we don't really know that either, do we? The only reason why we get the idea that Sansa is unlike all the other Starks, is because we're constantly reminded of how much she looks like Cat, and because she likes pretty things (Jon too thinks that Jaime is what a king should look like, with his golden hair and golden armour). But looks and character aren't the same thing, something Sansa has learned the hard way. And an 11yo child, and an adult are two very different things. Who knows how much Sansa would've grown into her Stark roots, if they had all just stayed in Winterfell, and lived happily ever after? I know I had plenty of silly, romantic and unrealistic dreams when I was 11. I probably was a terrible judge of character at that age too. Children are children, and children are usually silly. Arya is a very appealing character, but Sansa is by far the most realistic child in the series, it's sad that she gets so much hate for simply acting her age, whereas Jon, Arya and Bran often don't really come across as actual children. Sometimes they do, and their adventures don't always allow for them to behave the way a child their age would, but Sansa.. Sansa is the perfect depiction of an 11 yo girl. She's exactly as naive, and misguided as a girl, who grew up in a sheltered environment, of that age would be. You can't blame her for who she was made, and taught to be. Sansa was brought up to become a lady. We can assume that all Stark girls were raised in a similar way. Arya resists those gender roles, and coincidentally that happened to be the same with Lyanna. There is no indication whatsoever that this was the case with all girls in the Stark family throughout time. We've simply only been introduced to 3 Stark girls. In fact it appears that Lyanna was training her fighting skills in secret, so it stands to reason that it has never been acceptable in the Stark family for a girl to fight. If all Stark women had always been similar to Arya and Lyanna, some lord would probably at some point said: "you know what, nevermind! Just give them swords, and let's cut that needlework crap. They all have the hands of a blacksmith anyway..." Instead it appears that Ned is the first one to allow it, and only after Arya got her hands on her own sword anyway. You clearly did not grab the essence of my answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manderly's Rat Cook Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 39 minutes ago, HerblYY said: You clearly did not grab the essence of my answer. I wasn't replying to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterweedstrover Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Manderly's Rat Cook said: I agree with you, the show portraying them as pure evil, and making them so visible, was very disappointing to me. I disagree with you that there will be one simple answer to all the prophecies and legends though. I do think they're all connected, but I think they will apply to several people, since not one person can defeat the long night/WW alone, so I think there will be a sort of group of "chosen ones", who need to join forces at some point. Presumably that group will include Dany, Jon, Bran, Arya and others (perhaps a total of seven). Those four are the ones I'm relatively sure of. I think Tyrion might be one of them as well, but I'm not sure of the other two (if there will be seven that is, but it would be nice if the faith of the seven tied in somewhere, cause at this point it seems pretty random religion still). I think all prophecies cover some elements of story about a group of individuals with specific gifts, that can end the long night, but if you look at legends and prophecies from Yi Ti, and other far away places, they tend to differ too much from the AA/LH/PtwP ones to all apply to one person. However I'm also sure there's some truth to them. In real world mythology there often is overlap, as well as significant differences between cultures. Given that in the books there is always at least some actual truth in the stories, my guess is that they're all accounts of the same events, but starting from different perspectives to begin with. I think the faith of the seven basically tied together that there were multiple people involved, but forgot to remember, what these people were actually doing and who they were. But maybe that's just wishful thinking, because it has always bothered me that the faith of the seven, has virtually no stories or mythology that we know of. Like... What's the point?? There are three heads of the dragon. You're right that it will revolve around more than one person, but I think the story thread is the same. Since I believe I know who the Valonqar is, that person relates directly to the other plot lines. There are some pieces I'm unsure about: The lemon tree, Septa Lemore's identity, Ilyrio's true motives, and a few other things. But if you decontextualize the story around Rhaegar's children, Arya and her parallel to Lyanna, the plot to crack a dragon egg, the ritual at Summerhall, the citadel plot, Euron being tied to Quiathe, Quiathe being Shiera Seastar, her relations to the three eyed crow, and the whole mystery surrounding Ashara Dayne and Howland Reed, I think a full story appears. I could be wrong, but I think there is one thread being told and that the incidents each character faces are not separate riddles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Urgandy Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 I am not really bothered about it ever being explicitly confirmed in the books that Jon is Palpatines granddaughter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Sometimes being left wondering what if is more rewarding than any explanation given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Dont need or want or care about the mystery of the Others. In horror movies they dont go into minute detail for a "monster origin story," it just shows up and starts terrorizing people. I'd like to keep it that way. Overly explaining the origins of Poltergeist or the Ring would make it so dull IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springwatch Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Robert's tapestries. I'd actually prefer it they were just part of the family of tapestries, representing part of the world (Dany describes Xaro's tapestry as the world at her feet). So Robert's summer world would have found a refuge in the Vale. Feels hopeful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Dacey Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 I don't want to know anything about the origin of magic. Magic is a part of that world (as it is of ours). People find different ways to deal with such forces. They don't completely understand it, I don't think we should either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Dacey Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Also Aegons VI true parentage. I would like for it to become controversial in-universe (it's bound to, every would-be monarch is acused of bastardy or illegitimacy by their opponents) but I would love if GRRM never spelled out the true truth to us readers. Does it matter, to us? Why should it? From a modern perspective why the fuck is "birthright" important at all? And to some readers it surely seems to be. That baffles me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rondo Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 Martin can work as many mysteries as he wants but it is harder to come up with answers. It isn't that it makes for a better story to have unanswered questions. But do we really want the last two books to be nothing more than revelations? I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 6 hours ago, Springwatch said: Robert's tapestries. I'd actually prefer it they were just part of the family of tapestries, representing part of the world (Dany describes Xaro's tapestry as the world at her feet). So Robert's summer world would have found a refuge in the Vale. Feels hopeful. are Macguffins. Used to smuggle Lamentation to LF who gave to Nestor Royce to buy his support. Possibly Widows Wail too, but that's with Loras mesa thinks so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 There is a simple solution. Just block anyone who is discussing stuff you don't want to hear about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back door hodor Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 On 10/15/2020 at 4:53 PM, Curled Finger said: I would enjoy not really knowing what happens to Little Finger when all the dust settles. Let it be a mystery what becomes of him. OK, maybe hoping for another series of novellas about Little Finger's machinations in Lys or Mereen or Volantis is pushing hope a bit. I enjoy the mystery of the bloodline magics in ASOIAF. It would be fine to not know what/where/when/how/why of all of that. I feel the same wat about Varys..... I'd also be fine if we never found out his true background and motivation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 5 hours ago, Back door hodor said: I feel the same wat about Varys..... I'd also be fine if we never found out his true background and motivation Ah Varys! Good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 12 hours ago, TheLastWolf said: are Macguffins. Used to smuggle Lamentation to LF who gave to Nestor Royce to buy his support. Possibly Widows Wail too, but that's with Loras mesa thinks so. Nestor's support appears to have been secured with the tapestries alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, Curled Finger said: Nestor's support appears to have been secured with the tapestries alone. No way the tapestries in themselves are worth much. That much to seal the deal. So I'll go with ladygwyn on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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