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Star Trek: Keeping Up With the Cardassians


RumHam

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I know someone requested that be the threat title. I miss the Cardassians. I loved the joke on Lower Decks about how they moved a conference from Cadrassia Prime to another planet because "the Cardassians were creeping everybody out."

I liked the Discovery premier well enough. Still hoping this isn't a "we need to go back and stop the burn" situation. I get what they were going for with the guy waiting in the room everyday, but it was also pretty dumb. Like you can guard a flag / wait for starfleet and also take up knitting or something. 

Morn! I know they probably meant it to just be another of his species, but they normally have hair. Morn lost his because he kept latinum in one of his stomachs for decades. I don't think they ever said how long they live. So until I hear otherwise I choose to believe that was Morn. 

I've almost finished Lower Decks, it's pretty great once you get over how un-star treky the main character initially is. 

Edit: one of the upcoming Discovery episodes is called Unification III. Interesting!

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51 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I get what they were going for with the guy waiting in the room everyday, but it was also pretty dumb. Like you can guard a flag / wait for starfleet and also take up knitting or something. 

I had such a weird reaction to that, in that I agree it was a bit dumb, but also caught myself getting a bit choked up. It was the way he seemed to genuinely think having someone to hang the flag was the best he could dream of, and never even considered getting a field commission.

51 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Morn! I know they probably meant it to just be another of his species, but they normally have hair. Morn lost his because he kept latinum in one of his stomachs for decades. I don't think they ever said how long they live. So until I hear otherwise I choose to believe that was Morn. 

Ha! Nice catch on the hair. There’s a great side story to be told there of how Morn found himself in the future.

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1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

I had such a weird reaction to that, in that I agree it was a bit dumb, but also caught myself getting a bit choked up. It was the way he seemed to genuinely think having someone to hang the flag was the best he could dream of, and never even considered getting a field commission.

Ha! Nice catch on the hair. There’s a great side story to be told there of how Morn found himself in the future.

Well it could be Morn, since Morn's job was as a courier.

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4 hours ago, RumHam said:

I liked the Discovery premier well enough. Still hoping this isn't a "we need to go back and stop the burn" situation.

If it is, Michael will be kicking herself for blowing up her time machine as soon as she arrived.

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“The Burn” I wonder what they could be hinting at with that. Really it could be anything, lol.

I sort of wonder if the guys over at Bad Robot sort of enjoy destroying the Federation. It’s sort become a staple of New Trek. 

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I really enjoyed the season 3 premier. Nice reset and bizarrely by setting the story in a future where starfleet has collapsed they actually feel more Trek than the first two seasons combined.

On 10/17/2020 at 8:45 PM, DaveSumm said:

I had such a weird reaction to that, in that I agree it was a bit dumb, but also caught myself getting a bit choked up. It was the way he seemed to genuinely think having someone to hang the flag was the best he could dream of, and never even considered getting a field commission.

 

I also got the feels in a major way when Michael gave the guy the commission. For the first time since the new trek shows appeared I genuinely felt there was a sense of hope again.

20 hours ago, felice said:

If it is, Michael will be kicking herself for blowing up her time machine as soon as she arrived.

It would be pretty shitty if they went back and stopped the burn as this era of trek suits the era they now find themselves in much moreso than the prequel territory they were in. I'm actually interesting in seeing what the klingons, vulcans, romulans etc, etc will be doing in this "dark age". Previous seasons I didn't care because chances were it'd be a continuity nightmare. 900 years later those species could be quite different culturally - some may even be extinct.

I'm also hoping it's not a holodeck fake-out. I got the impression throughout the episode that hard light was used everywhere in terms of buildings and furniture and I started to wonder how many of the people walking around might be hard light holograms

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1 hour ago, red snow said:

It would be pretty shitty if they went back and stopped the burn

I really hope not, I can’t think why Burnham and crew would manage it if it eluded the best and brightest minds of civilisations a millennia more advanced. I’m much more interested in seeing a story of trying to rebuild the Federation.

I’m still very curious to know what the limitations are of travel, if everyone’s just scared to use warp or if there’s some scarce resource that restricts it. Which I guess would inform exactly how you would go about rebuilding.

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That was a solid first episode. A bit too conventional/predictable in many ways though. The premise is interesting, but it'll still take them a lot more imagination to make it work. Ironically, going back to Discovery after having watched Lower Decks makes me fear tropes even more than usual.

 

I'm not sold on the new character (Book). He feels like the upteenth version of a character I've seen a bazillion times already, and a blossoming romance with Burnham is not something I want to see. But most of all I hate the fact that Burnham just ran into him, of all people, just outside her wormhole. There were ways to make this a wee bit more believable, and they still went for "basically, miracle" ; that's lazy writing in my book, and that's worrying.

The potential for the setting is huge. There's a lot to explore, and many ways to go back to a Trek that fans can connect to:
- A lone ship exploring totally uncharted space, "strange new worlds, new life, and new civilisations." The core of Trek, which makes it quite a challenge, since it's going to be tough coming up with new stories. I'd really like them to try though.
- Rebuilding the Federation. There's a lot of potential for politics and diplomacy in there, and I really hope they won't eschew it. What does the Federation offer to its worlds exactly? Past shows haven't developed that side of things, and it would be amazing to flesh out this Federation we barely know.
- Discovery being behind technologically. Funnily enough that's something the show is uniquely equiped to deal with: since they're a science ship full of crazy-smart people, a lot can be credible, more than in other shows.

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On 10/17/2020 at 7:45 PM, RumHam said:

Morn! I know they probably meant it to just be another of his species, but they normally have hair. Morn lost his because he kept latinum in one of his stomachs for decades. I don't think they ever said how long they live. So until I hear otherwise I choose to believe that was Morn.

He also didn't get any lines which is classic Morn. I guess we don't know how long his species lives so he could still be alive.

Overall I thought it was a fun episode, even if Burnham and Book seemed to go very quickly from backstabbing to being best friends. Trying to rebuild the Federation seems like a reasonable premise for a show. It's often a bit of a problem that after so many episodes it is hard to do something new in Star Trek so this could be an opportunity for something a bit different.

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7 hours ago, Werthead said:

Discovery having the Spore Drive helps them out, and if they can replicate it on the large scale it obviously won't balls up the extant timeline.

I can’t remember why now but I thought it wasn’t operational ... or was it that Pike chose not to use it? Maybe the technology has caught up and they can build a non-human navigational device.

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I just binged the second season and watched the first episode of season three, so forgive me if I missed things...

I thought this episode was kind of fun. I am trying not to overthink it because it is just Star Trek. It can be silly. Michael immediately knowing how to skillfully use a weapon from 950 years in her future? Sure. It's Trek. The Orions+Andorians planned to eat a live beast that had the power to immediately overwhelm half a dozen armed folks staring at it? Fine. That same beast seemingly being trained by Book, despite it being a courier package? Meh. It's Trek. I want to like it.

I like them going into the future just because I never understood the obsession with staying in the past. We're sixty years past TOS, why retell those stories and write yourself into a box in terms of tech and effects? Move into the future and invent some new fake tech that we will scoff at in thirty years' time. And they've done it :) Book seems like he can be a fun character. I hope they resist they urge to just match him up with Michael. Now shipping Book and Sahil. Or Book and Book. Or Book and Giorgiou.

I am a bit bummed that they've given up even the pretense that anyone else on the show matters. It was always Michael as literally the most important person in the universe, but they at least threw a bone to other cast members. I have some small hope that RENT's Mark, Tilly, and Capt. Empress Giorgiou-my-god-she's-amazing will return and actually have stories other than "Oh boy, I hope we can be near Michael."

Sorry if this is old-hat...were we supposed to care that Airiam died? She had...line(s) before that episode? Maybe? And everyone thanked Michael for her very thoughtful and amazing eulogy that had virtually nothing to do with the deceased, but just about the Federation?

Sorry. No Trek is without its pontification, nor its chosen ones. I just never had the chance to whinge about it in (semi-) real-time.

 

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4 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

I can’t remember why now but I thought it wasn’t operational ... or was it that Pike chose not to use it? Maybe the technology has caught up and they can build a non-human navigational device.

I remember they detached the space tardigrade and could use it with a human subject. I believe by the end of Season 2 they'd gotten to the point where they could use it safely at will, but it's been a while.

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3 hours ago, Lightning Lord said:

Sorry if this is old-hat...were we supposed to care that Airiam died? She had...line(s) before that episode? Maybe? And everyone thanked Michael for her very thoughtful and amazing eulogy that had virtually nothing to do with the deceased, but just about the Federation?

It was widely agreed at the time that it was a lame attempt to suddenly catch up on a season and a half of character development, so that we cared when she died ... but nobody did. It wasn’t the same actress from Season 1 as she didn’t get on with the prosthetics, and I think that actress replaced her on the bridge as a different character? Or something like that? At least she finally got to proudly take her place as a background extra with no lines like the rest of the bridge.

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1 hour ago, sifth said:

Wait, are we really suppose to believe that guy just spent 40 years, waiting in one place for "someone" to show up. That's insane, someone honestly thought that was good writing.

I’ve been stuck in some boring jobs before, I kind of imagine that some semblance of an ‘official’ job title existed and he was technically just turning up to work everyday with fuck all to do. But as was mentioned, they really needed to show him doing something other than staring eyes forward at his desk. Maybe a Lester Freeman style miniature doll house hobby, or some sort of Desmond from Lost situation where he has to check the scanners every few hours to confirm that, nope, still no ships.

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It's really too bad. TNG got better when they actually built up characters beyond Riker and Picard. DS9 improved when it was more than Sisko and Kira (even if I did roll my eyes at nearly all Ferengi episodes).

I think I could enjoy Michael and a new ensemble trying to piece together Federation 2.1. Meanwhile, Discovery is traipsing about, having adventures in a new and confusing spatial-political reality, gutted at the loss of Burnham, but also knowing they have to move on and develop their own storylines lives. Then, they meet up later and it's nice and heartwarming.

I am not sure I want to stick around for a whole season of ST:DMB - "Michael Burnham looks for her ship, everyone on her ship looks for Michael Burnham, with only lip-service development because Michael Burnham isn't here to be the focus of everything."

I really want to like this. I think the visuals have been lovely and the acting has been good (even great at times). I just want the writing to catch up to the rest. They keep hinting at engaging characters! I hope! I'm a true believer in good Trek!

But I'm not going to sit in a room for 40 years with a fla... it just occurred to me that I have two flags in a box. Excuse me. I have hanging to do.

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1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

I’ve been stuck in some boring jobs before, I kind of imagine that some semblance of an ‘official’ job title existed and he was technically just turning up to work everyday with fuck all to do. But as was mentioned, they really needed to show him doing something other than staring eyes forward at his desk. Maybe a Lester Freeman style miniature doll house hobby, or some sort of Desmond from Lost situation where he has to check the scanners every few hours to confirm that, nope, still no ships.

A guy on youtube made a great comparison, to the guy waiting 40 years on Discovery, to the ambassador shown in the first episode of the BSG remake, who showed up every 40 years to meet with the Cylons. In BSG we see the guy looking at pictures of his family and that he only shows up at that place one day each year, in the name of diplomacy, implying that he has a real job the rest of the year. All done with no dialogue at all.

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22 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

I really hope not, I can’t think why Burnham and crew would manage it if it eluded the best and brightest minds of civilisations a millennia more advanced. I’m much more interested in seeing a story of trying to rebuild the Federation.

I’m still very curious to know what the limitations are of travel, if everyone’s just scared to use warp or if there’s some scarce resource that restricts it. Which I guess would inform exactly how you would go about rebuilding.

I read somewhere online that there was a trek episode where scientists were playing with dilithium and the ensuing explosion tore up space/time making it impossible to warp? Given the scarcity of dilithium i guess a large scale version of this happened disconnecting vast sections of the quadrant. I like it as it's very collapse of the roman empire/dark ages but in a SF setting. And rebuilding a new Federation will be be fun - as will the inevitable encounters with false Federations they'll likely encounter along the way. The spore drive should allow discovery to jump around letting us check in on the new status quo in each sector. Sort of taking the element of "voyager" but doing it well , hopefully

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