Star Trek: Keeping Up With the Cardassians

[karaddin]

23 minutes ago, Lightning Lord said:

I don't have strong feelings about this one, but I think I liked it overall. I am going to try to focus on the positives.

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On the other hand, Saru is now the comic relief and an outright idiot for thinking "Huh, the brutal crime syndicate is totally going to accept that we just crewed and released the ship, but it was totally not us."

 

To be fair to Saru

Spoiler

He didn't seem surprised they didn't accept it, perhaps he just wanted enough cover when reporting to the Admiral rather than actually expecting it to work.

 

[Lightning Lord]

That's a good point

Execute.

[Denvek]

3 hours ago, karaddin said:

To be fair to Saru

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He didn't seem surprised they didn't accept it, perhaps he just wanted enough cover when reporting to the Admiral rather than actually expecting it to work.

 

Spoiler

From his tone of voice when he was offering the Syndicate assistance afterwards, he never expected them to believe his defence, and he knew from the start that it was just a way to get around the admiral's orders.

 

[karaddin]

3 minutes ago, Denvek said:

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From his tone of voice when he was offering the Syndicate assistance afterwards, he never expected them to believe his defence, and he knew from the start that it was just a way to get around the admiral's orders.

 

Yeah I think that had to be up there for one of the biggest shit eating grins I've seen on a "good guy". So props to their effects/make up/Doug etc for making it work through everything that makes up Saru.

[DaveSumm]

Fairly average episode, didn’t strongly dislike or like anything. I can’t quite put my finger on what it was about Book’s story, but I didn’t really follow what the stakes were or why certain things were happening, almost like the exposition was a bit weak for a relatively simple premise. I didn’t realise the locusts were such a problem until they suddenly pulled a finale out of the bag, in which Burnham once again manages to do what Book’s “best scientists” couldn’t: amplify something. With a 900 year old ship. It’s interesting to see more and more people have negative opinions about the Federation, seems more likely that they know more about the Burn than they’re saying. 

On the Adira scene; I’m happy that they addressed their pronouns, although there’s an argument that it wasn’t quite the usual Star Trek method of doing so. TOS gets praise for depicting a bridge crew who, in the 1960’s, looked like an enemy combatant of a war that was currently being waged, and an enemy of a Cold War also going on, and a woman for whom civil rights protests were ongoing, all alongside white Americans. They didn’t ever mention this fact; it was just so far past the resolution of all these things that nobody cared anymore. They were done patting themselves on the back, it was just old news. With Adira, I might’ve preferred that they mentioned nonchalantly that they prefer they/them, not she, and Stamets just doesn’t even blink, like it’s entirely normal for someone to ask that. The way it’s presented is that in 1000 years, people like Adira would still feel awkward and uncomfortable asking this, and wait a few weeks before bringing it up. But, as I said, it’s better that they address it than not at all, I just would’ve liked to see some indication of progress, rather than a scene that could just as easily have been set in 2020.

[Ran]

5 hours ago, karaddin said:

To be fair to Saru

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He didn't seem surprised they didn't accept it, perhaps he just wanted enough cover when reporting to the Admiral rather than actually expecting it to work.

 

Spoiler

The dramatic music and zoom suggested otherwise, IMO. 

 

[williamjm]

On 12/4/2020 at 11:34 PM, Werthead said:

The joke was actually more subtle and more complex (!) on Lower Decks.

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Ramsey spends several episodes moaning about not having her own cool version of "Engage!" (trying out "It's warp time!" before admitting that's rubbish), but it's actually the fake Ramsey in the holodeck "movie" version of their adventures who later comes up with her own version: "Time to take this puppy off its leash! Warp me!" This is the same scene that simul-rips on The Motion Picture and the 2009 Abrams film.

Although I think the joke is a bit off-target. "Engage" wasn't Picard's thing, it was what every Starfleet captain said. Picard's personal thing was "Make it so." Captain Styles of the Excelsior did use "Execute!" instead in Star Trek III, but he was a prat, so it never caught on.

I think seems more like he should be a "Make it so" captain than an "Execute"/"Engage" captain.

[RumHam]

That was....something?

That guy seemed too nice to be a Q. Really seemed like something out of TOS.

On 10/24/2020 at 5:22 PM, Werthead said:

What would be interesting is if she was semi-redeemed, went back to the Mirror Universe and founded/took over their version of Section 31...which of course would be an undercover organisation devoted to good and justice.

Ha, that might even be interesting.

You might have hit the nail on the head there. 

[Plessiez]

So, Georgiou's whole arc this season seems to be

Spoiler

The writers belatedly remember that Michelle Yeoh is meant to be starring in a Section 31 spin-off, presumbly set in the 23rd century, and come up with an increasingly convoluted series of excuses for her to both want to and be able to undo her decision to follow Michael Burnham into the future. 

That's pretty disappointing (though a lot of people guessed as much).

Also the crew of the Discovery (and now the rest of Star Fleet) keep forgetting that Georgiou is, in universe, a dictator and a war criminal  several times over.  Despite the fact she reminds them of it constantly.  Your response to sharing a ship with somebody who has killed millions of people, who has overseen mass torture and who has eaten members of your species should not be to offer them a hug.

10 hours ago, RumHam said:

 

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That guy seemed too nice to be a Q. Really seemed like something out of TOS.

You might have hit the nail on the head there. 

 

 

Spoiler

Unfortunately (and feeding heavily into my overall distaste for the Mirror Universe stuff), the writers of DS9 already decided that it would be a good idea to have the Empire collapse and be overrun by something even worse because Mirror!Spock's attempts to reform it backfire.  So I don't think there's much scope to have even something like this work: we already know what happens to the Empire, so a Mirror Universe Section 31 trying to redeem it would seem a little redundant.  We already know they're destined to fail.

I did like some of the non-Georgiou parts of this episode though.

[Werthead]

The guy appears to be:

Spoiler

A personification of the Guardian of Forever. The newspaper he is reading has several references to soup kitchens, Edith Keeler and other things from the TOS episode.

This was an interesting episode. It was fun and brought real character development to Georgiou, as well as hinting at where her spin-off show might go. This random casting of Cronenberg also seems to be panning out.

The biggest flaw I could see

Spoiler

You don't tease us this much with Jason Isaacs and then not have him show up. That's lame.

I do feel Part II needs to have a really good explanation for what's going on as well to make this episode fully work or not.

[Denvek]

Just now, Werthead said:

The biggest flaw I could see

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You don't tease us this much with Jason Isaacs and then not have him show up. That's lame.

I do feel Part II needs to have a really good explanation for what's going on as well to make this episode fully work or not.

Spoiler

I was expecting at least a hello from him as the cliffhanger. Now I'm concerned he might not even be in part 2.

 

[RumHam]

10 hours ago, Plessiez said:

So, Georgiou's whole arc this season seems to be

  Reveal hidden contents

The writers belatedly remember that Michelle Yeoh is meant to be starring in a Section 31 spin-off, presumbly set in the 23rd century, and come up with an increasingly convoluted series of excuses for her to both want to and be able to undo her decision to follow Michael Burnham into the future. 

That's pretty disappointing (though a lot of people guessed as much).

Also the crew of the Discovery (and now the rest of Star Fleet) keep forgetting that Georgiou is, in universe, a dictator and a war criminal  several times over.  Despite the fact she reminds them of it constantly.  Your response to sharing a ship with somebody who has killed millions of people, who has overseen mass torture and who has eaten members of your species should not be to offer them a hug.

  Reveal hidden contents

Unfortunately (and feeding heavily into my overall distaste for the Mirror Universe stuff), the writers of DS9 already decided that it would be a good idea to have the Empire collapse and be overrun by something even worse because Mirror!Spock's attempts to reform it backfire.  So I don't think there's much scope to have even something like this work: we already know what happens to the Empire, so a Mirror Universe Section 31 trying to redeem it would seem a little redundant.  We already know they're destined to fail.

I did like some of the non-Georgiou parts of this episode though.

Good point

They could still make it work though if they wanted. Might need Peck as mirror Spock. I mean we know what happens to Spock and Pike but they're still making that show. 

Plus, is it even THE mirror universe anymore, now that she's changed things? I've never understood the difference between the mirror universe and the alternate universes seen in Parallels.

Like say she apprehends and kills mirror Lorca before he switches universes. That doesn't change reality for the main part of the show, I assume. It would create another non-mirror universe where Lorca just dies with the Buran instead of appearing to be the only survivor. So now does the prime timeline have a mirror universe anymore? Or is the dead Lorca/Michael stays in jail the only one with a mirror universe? Or does every branching timeline have a mirror universe?

[DaveSumm]

11 hours ago, Plessiez said:

So, Georgiou's whole arc this season seems to be

  Hide contents

The writers belatedly remember that Michelle Yeoh is meant to be starring in a Section 31 spin-off, presumbly set in the 23rd century, and come up with an increasingly convoluted series of excuses for her to both want to and be able to undo her decision to follow Michael Burnham into the future. 

That's pretty disappointing (though a lot of people guessed as much).

Also the crew of the Discovery (and now the rest of Star Fleet) keep forgetting that Georgiou is, in universe, a dictator and a war criminal  several times over.  Despite the fact she reminds them of it constantly.  Your response to sharing a ship with somebody who has killed millions of people, who has overseen mass torture and who has eaten members of your species should not be to offer them a hug.

  Hide contents

Unfortunately (and feeding heavily into my overall distaste for the Mirror Universe stuff), the writers of DS9 already decided that it would be a good idea to have the Empire collapse and be overrun by something even worse because Mirror!Spock's attempts to reform it backfire.  So I don't think there's much scope to have even something like this work: we already know what happens to the Empire, so a Mirror Universe Section 31 trying to redeem it would seem a little redundant.  We already know they're destined to fail.

I did like some of the non-Georgiou parts of this episode though.

Yup, why on Earth did they take Georgiou with them into Season 3? The spin-off was already confirmed then wasn’t it? It’s meant that the whole season, we have to believe the crew give a shit about this murderous Kelpian eater, and have...

Spoiler

...weird doors to past mirror universes? That 100% needs more explanation or it’s just awful writing. It being an obscure TOS reference doesn’t excuse it looking ridiculous in the context of this episode. And then suddenly the episode turns into a mirror episode, full of people I couldn’t give less of a shit about. Ooo, I wonder if evil Burnham’s plan will work? What reason have we been given to care?

Really wanted to like this season but after all this time, it still feels like the show is figuring out what it’s supposed to be. Didn’t find much to enjoy in this one.

Also, I must be wrong about this ... but did he say her universe came about after an incidence with a Romulan mining ship? Uh, what?

[Maltaran]

10 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

 

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Also, I must be wrong about this ... but did he say her universe came about after an incidence with a Romulan mining ship? Uh, what?

No, that was the other alternate universe that the dead guy Culber and Cronenberg were talking about came from

[DaveSumm]

1 minute ago, Maltaran said:

No, that was the other alternate universe that the dead guy Culber and Cronenberg were talking about came from

Ahh Ok. Still a little odd though, so the JJ verse eventually led to TNG Season 1 uniforms? Or did he cross over from the JJ to the Prime?

[RumHam]

45 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Ahh Ok. Still a little odd though, so the JJ verse eventually led to TNG Season 1 uniforms? Or did he cross over from the JJ to the Prime?

He crossed over from the JJ timeline and ahead however many years to the TNG era. It's traveling through time and universes that seems to kill you horribly. 

[Lightning Lord]

I didn't hate this one. I think mostly because Michelle Yeoh is excellent.

I wish Cleveland Booker (new name for their baseball team?) had more happen with him and Saru. I liked the chemistry between the actors.

Spoiler

This episode did maintain that the most important thing in any universe is Michael Burnham. She was the entire focus of the mirror plot and the admiral wouldn't give them the go-ahead without Burnham's blessing. (admittedly reaching a bit on the second part  )

 

[SpaceChampion]

Picard, Discovery and Lower Decks coming to Netflix U.S.

Seems like CBS All Access isn't performing well enough.  Viacom should probably sell off all Star Trek to Amazon or Netflix, and get out of the streaming business.

[Werthead]

On 12/15/2020 at 6:52 PM, SpaceChampion said:

Picard, Discovery and Lower Decks coming to Netflix U.S.

Seems like CBS All Access isn't performing well enough.  Viacom should probably sell off all Star Trek to Amazon or Netflix, and get out of the streaming business.

No reputable site is reporting this (GFR is much more miss than hit with its "exclusive" stories) and it'd be a bizarre thing to do with CBS All Access rebranding to Paramount Plus in the next few months.

Also, the Star Trek shows are the only things keeping CBSAA going at the moment. Diluting the brand by selling shows to Netflix makes no sense, not when CBSAA has done rather better than expected in the streaming marketplace for a relatively niche offering.

[RumHam]

The parts of the last two episodes not set in the mirror universe were alright.

 

They really should have had Georgiou's change to a basically good person happen more gradually over the season.

The guardian said he was sending her to a time when the two universes were still close together. He didn't say he was sending her back to her time. So I have a little bit of hope that she's not going back to work with Ash Tyler. If they send her to a post-DS9 pre-Picard time I'll be a lot more interested in the show.