Fury Resurrected Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 I loved both Picard and Discovery so far, I think they’re both very in the spirit of Star Trek in general and shouldn’t be compared to say an HBO show. Star Trek is a vehicle for expanding representation and left wing propaganda. Both shows do just fine there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denvek Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 "We represent the vegetarian space socialists who are always right." One of the best descriptions of the Federation I've heard for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 9 hours ago, Lightning Lord said: What did Chabon want? And is the same Chabon what who did write the something something Adventures of Cavalier and Klay? I couldn't actually remember, just that Wert had mentioned some of the planned direction that got dropped and I'd liked it. I was going to ask Wert to bail me out, but Google let past Wert take care of it for me https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/156443-star-trek-thread-set-picard-to-stun-spoilers/&do=findComment&comment=8505638 And it is indeed Chabon. Michael Chabon. I'm not familiar with AoC&K but Google says yes it is the same guy. And to be clear I did still like a lot of what we got, and enjoyed the show overall - I just think it could have been even better, and that delving into the post dominion war Federation would have worked well alongside the strong beats of the story we did get. My main issue with the end of Disco S3 was that it Spoiler Completely discarded what I thought had been a strong tension in the season around whether Michael even belonged in StarFleet/any kind of military with a rigid command structure any more. Her doubts felt real and then just suddenly disappeared and she's Captain. It felt like there needed to be more in the middle of that, we needed to see her refreshing her faith in the structure being a force for good, rather than see her continuing to act on her own initiative. I don't see how the events at the end convinced her of SF again, unless it's just that she can't bare to risk not being there with the crew in which case they could have done a better job of showing us that emotion. They may well move on from that character arc next season and if what they do is good I'll be ok to let it slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 Regarding Picard, I'm anxious because Chabon stepped down as a showrunner. My impression is he was able to mitigate some of the shortcomings of the producers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 On 2/20/2021 at 4:32 AM, Lightning Lord said: What did Chabon want? And is the same Chabon what who did write the something something Adventures of Cavalier and Klay? Yes. Chabon is a Pulitzer and Hugo Award-winning author. He wrote The Adventures of Kavalier & Clay, Wonder Boys and The Yiddish Policemen's Union. From what can be told, it appears that Chabon's original idea was to cleave much more into the political reasons for why the Federation has adopted a more isolationist stance, and this would be rooted in the Dominion War arc from Deep Space Nine, but he was overruled (possibly by Kurtzman) on the grounds that they didn't like DS9 and thought that nobody had watched it (a curious statement, given DS9's immense critical cachet and the fact its viewing figures on original airing curb-stomped every other Trek series bar only TNG). So they had to be much more circumspect in the worldbuilding, which came across as vague and random. I think it's quite likely that Chabon was relieved to have an excuse to step down (Paramount+ - as I supposed we should now call it - are developing a Kavalier & Clay TV show with him in unquestioned charge) and not have to deal with similar problems on Picard S2. Looking at the writers and others stuff they've done, I think most of them are actually decent. The fly in the ointment is Kurtzman, an extremely poor writer who - very, very clearly - does not understand Star Trek in its fundamentals, either its worldbuilding and canon, or in how it approaches thematic ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caligula_K3 Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 Getting closer to the end of Discovery Season 3. The Mirror Universe is, as always, lame. It was fun the first time DS9 did it and had serious diminishing returns every time they went back. Learn that lesson, Discovery. And if you're going to do it, at least bring in Vic Fontaine. I also had some serious flashbacks to the recent season of the Mandalorian during this two-parter... Yay, everyone gets a spinoff! The last episode I watched was much cooler. But is this really going to be the answer for the origin of the Burn? Spoiler A Kelpian kid genetically developed to be able to blow up all of an element everywhere in the galaxy whenever he gets upset? WTF? Not that I expected a satisfying answer for the Burn (thank you, Lost and BSG, for training me to not expect satisfying answers from TV show mysteries), but this explanation seemed especially... strange. It's sad to hear that Chabon got sidelined for Picard - he's a great writer, and it would have been so cool to explore the aftermath of the Dominion War. Hopefully one of the 200 spinoffs in development can tackle that instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 9 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said: Getting closer to the end of Discovery Season 3. The Mirror Universe is, as always, lame. It was fun the first time DS9 did it and had serious diminishing returns every time they went back. Learn that lesson, Discovery. And if you're going to do it, at least bring in Vic Fontaine. If done right, it can be a great narrative tool, and a way to do some really interesting internal character explorations around might-have-beens. If done right. I personally *loved* the hell out of the concept, as it (as I've mentioned elsewhere) reminded me of the parallel worlds in Fringe, which handled the concept with a terrific level of nuance and tenderness compared to Discovery. (The ruminations Olivia and Walter have over what their Other Selves did or didn't do, did or didn't experience, was terrific character drama and showed off some top-notch acting.) It's a great concept, but you have to know what you want to say and what you want to explore. Discovery, unfortunately, treated it as little more than a plot hook for a season-long quasi-mystery in the vein of Lost. Which resulted in it kind of missing the point something fierce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 I love the concept of alternate universes, I just think the Mirrot Universe is lame. Unfortunately, they keep returning to the same one again and again.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 18 minutes ago, Mindwalker said: I love the concept of alternate universes, I just think the Mirrot Universe is lame. Unfortunately, they keep returning to the same one again and again.. A much stronger story would have allowed for exactly what you suggest - alternate universes, rather than a moustache-twirling eeeeevvvviiiillll one. It doesn't have quite the same psychological impact as one where characters were forced into much more complicated, ethically grey areas that come from having more nuanced parallel worlds. Maybe not quite as zany as we saw on Sliders or Doctor Who, obviously (though the Cybus duology with Rose's dad? *chef's kiss*). I know Kurtzman was a producer and writer on Fringe, but it seems like Robert Orci and Abrams almost...balanced out his more wild impulses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Lord Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Thanks for the replies. I think a more political look at what happened with The Federation and other organizations would have been a far stronger approach. This season baffled me for how it seemed to hurl through plotlines as quickly as possible with no actual exploration of those plotlines. It's the same approach to characterization: don't show the audience, don't guide the growth organically; just tell the audience that Character X is this thing, Plot Device Y is that thing. Sigh. Lower Decks was delightful. To whomever posted the video that hated it, thanks for the post. I didn't agree in the slightest but it was interesting to hear a different impression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Just finished season 3. I liked it a lot though at times it felt like it was trying to do too much. It got a bit random in places and there were some things about the final 3 episode arc that either I missed or weren't explained well, but overall I liked it. As much as I hate to admit it, I think I liked this better than the last season of The Mandalorian. The production values are amazing. I miss Lorca. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Lord Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 I enjoy the very differing opinions on DMB. I thought The Mandalorian was a better story and the visuals matched well with the tone. Trek leaned too much into "let's make it look slick and wild," and forgot to consider if they actually needed to do certain things (let alone should). That said, I am glad you liked it If enough people watch it, maybe they'll attempt more and more spinoffs and I'll get more and more chances to find a modern Trek that really grabs me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 8 hours ago, Lightning Lord said: I enjoy the very differing opinions on DMB. I thought The Mandalorian was a better story and the visuals matched well with the tone. Trek leaned too much into "let's make it look slick and wild," and forgot to consider if they actually needed to do certain things (let alone should). That said, I am glad you liked it If enough people watch it, maybe they'll attempt more and more spinoffs and I'll get more and more chances to find a modern Trek that really grabs me. I was less thrilled with Picard, but I'll tune in when season 2 hits. I assume they are working on the Strange New Worlds spin off now. Not sure when it's out but I'll definitely be watching it. Season 3 of Discovery: everything up to and including the episode with the Ni'Var was great, although I was a little fuzzy on what was going on with the sphere data. It's been a while since I saw season 2 so I was a bit confused as to what mom was doing there, but I just went with it. After that the show went down hill a little. Still, I love the direction the show is going. As for Star Wars, sad to say I'm done with it. I'm saying this as someone who had a lot of great memories related to that mythology; from sitting in the aisle of a dangerously crowded small town theater to see ESB when I was a kid, to seeing the re-release of ANH in the 90's (that was so much fun) to taking off work on a Friday afternoon and seeing RoTS with a bunch of co workers. The final episode of Clone Wars gave me literal chills. But somewhere along the way, that mythology became less and less about "where-can-we-take-this-next" to more and more about nostalgia. The biggest moments of last season? The return of Luke, Boba, and Ashoka; characters that were created roughly 50, 40 and 20 years ago, respectively. Similar comments could be made about the recent films. As much as I loved that stuff, I think it's being overdone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 I think I already said it before, but I'd be happy if these vultures would just let Star Trek die. I have long given up on hoping that if they throw out enough garbage shows that one episode or two miraculously won't make me feel miserable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Sounds like the rebranding of CBS All Access as Paramount+ is causing a rethink of the Star Trek shows. The shows have been carrying CBS All Access and helping it to ahead-of-schedule growth, but there also seems to be a feeling that the streamer is too reliant on Trek. As a result, Paramount+ is focusing on other revivals - Frasier and Rugrats chief amongst them - and also new projects. They've just poached the Halo series from Showtime as a possible new flagship show for the streamer. The result of that is that they will keep the current in-production five Trek shows (Discovery, Picard, Lower Decks, Prodigy and Strange New Worlds) but will not expand beyond that until one of the five naturally ends (they note that Picard will probably finish first, as that show has a set shelf-life because of Patrick Stewart's age). That puts Section 31 on indefinite hold for the time being (I wouldn't be surprised if that was quietly dropped behind the scenes), along with several other projects they'd been discussing, possibly the rumoured Seven and maybe Riker shows; the rumour of a Sisko shows appears to have been bullshit all along. Prodigy will launch this summer, Lower Decks Season 2 likely in the autumn and Discovery Season 4 might start being released at the very end of this year, although that might slip to 2022. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Having finished Discovery and Lower Decks last week I have to be honest and say that it's a good thing they aren't making any more shows for a while. Lower decks is probably the best show of the bunch as it doesn't take it's self too seriously and is intentionally silly while the live action shows suffer from unintentional silliness. There's also a nice balance of the characters/crew in the sense I actually know who all the lower deck characters are - which I still can't say of Discovery. Not sure this is a spoiler thread so I'll play it safe but while I think the current setting/season of Discovery worked the reveal that the burn was an alien whose "polyploidy" allowed him to become some dilithium hybrid who screamed and put an end to warp travel was ridiculous. The only positive I can say about that is that I didn't see it coming and it didn't involve fungi for a change . Discovery did suffer from JJ syndrome though with needless "flash" to distract from boring fights/transition sequences. WTF was with all the meccano appearing all the time? Why did a fight have to occur in an elevator moving through a vast open warehouse (I still don't know if this was inside the discovery or another ship). Worst of all the utterly pointless transformer stutter of spaceships changing shape because I guess someone thought it was too dull watching a fixed spaceship move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Speaking of Prodigy, they released art featuring the (or most of) the main characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Number one thing they need to do with kick Kurtzman to the curb. More shows will be pointless until they have someone better in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Stumbled across a funny little music clip - Robert Picardo (The Doctor) with a homage to Brent Spiner... sort of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughn Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Imagine thinking that Halo is a better starting point for a TV show that Star Trek. Mind boggling. I want a show about a Vulcan spy in the Romulus of the TNG "The Neutral Zone" era. Some real North Korea / 80s Albania unknown enemy stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.