Tucu Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 3 hours ago, Black Crow said: Ah, but they didn't go walking off again neither... Seriously though, this harks back to the Mabinogion and Bran's fate - which that isn't at all inconsistent with what GRRM supposedly told the Mummers - assuming you know the story I am familiar with that. Worth mentioning the ending of the Whispers chapter: Quote the moon rose higher in the sky, and down below the ground the heads of forgotten kings whispered secrets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 10 hours ago, Tucu said: I am familiar with that. Worth mentioning the ending of the Whispers chapter: Oh indeed, and also worth remembering that Bran Bendigeidfran watched over the Kingdom of Britain from under the White Hill, but he didn't rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienarea Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 On 11/20/2020 at 9:55 AM, Black Crow said: Oh indeed, and also worth remembering that Bran Bendigeidfran watched over the Kingdom of Britain from under the White Hill, but he didn't rule. In my understanding Bran should not leave the cave. He could become one with the weirwood and tell the story through a thousand eyes and one, including time-jumps. Daenerys were to stay in Essos, while Jon lives his second life in Ghost. And Stonesnake returns ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted November 24, 2020 Author Share Posted November 24, 2020 On 11/22/2020 at 3:05 PM, alienarea said: In my understanding Bran should not leave the cave. He could become one with the weirwood and tell the story through a thousand eyes and one, including time-jumps. Daenerys were to stay in Essos, while Jon lives his second life in Ghost. And Stonesnake returns ... As to the first, absolutely. I think that GRRM was probably trolling the mummers if he really did tell them Bran would become king of Westeros. Arguably, as Bran Bendigeidfran he will be king -on a weirwood throne - but not of the kind depicted by the mummers. As to the second, while that may be desireable, GRRM was pretty emphatic in the original synopsis that she would become queen and ruler, but he gave no guarantees as to longevity. And then Jon, no, I don't see a long-term stay in Ghost. I'll go back here to the OP and look to third party intervention to release him to become another Coldhands. After all GRRM did say that the ending will be bittersweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted November 24, 2020 Author Share Posted November 24, 2020 Mind you, if Bran really is "scheduled" by GRRM to become High King of Westeros, it rather puts the knockers on the central thesis of R+L=J that Jon is the lost rightful heir to the [iron] throne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 6 minutes ago, Black Crow said: Mind you, if Bran really is "scheduled" by GRRM to become High King of Westeros, it rather puts the knockers on the central thesis of R+L=J that Jon is the lost rightful heir to the [iron] throne Oh that old dead horse. (the first emoji is my horse stand-in) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 32 minutes ago, Black Crow said: Mind you, if Bran really is "scheduled" by GRRM to become High King of Westeros, it rather puts the knockers on the central thesis of R+L=J that Jon is the lost rightful heir to the [iron] throne This is what really drives the whole thing isn't it. That and the prophecy. Although that's coming apart too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Instead of derailing my OP; I'm going to post this here where no sacred cow is sacred: #214 Posted 5 hours ago (edited) Tangential to the subject at hand, something that came up in another thread got me thinking about the letter sent to Brandon Stark and why he rushed off to King's Landing. I think Barristan Selmy gives us the answer having overheard certain things while attending Aerys at court. Quote A Dance with Dragons - The Kingbreaker Even after all these years, Ser Barristan could still recall Ashara's smile, the sound of her laughter. He had only to close his eyes to see her, with her long dark hair tumbling about her shoulders and those haunting purple eyes. Daenerys has the same eyes. Sometimes when the queen looked at him, he felt as if he were looking at Ashara's daughter … But Ashara's daughter had been stillborn, and his fair lady had thrown herself from a tower soon after, mad with grief for the child she had lost, and perhaps for the man who had dishonored her at Harrenhal as well. She died never knowing that Ser Barristan had loved her. How could she? He was a knight of the Kingsguard, sworn to celibacy. No good could have come from telling her his feelings. No good came from silence either. If I had unhorsed Rhaegar and crowned Ashara queen of love and beauty, might she have looked to me instead of Stark? He would never know. But of all his failures, none haunted Barristan Selmy so much as that. It's this: the man who dishonored her at Harrenhal. When Brandon rushes off to KL, he doesn't demand that Lyanna be released or mention her at all. This is a matter of honor. An accusation has been made putting a stain on the Stark honor and the reason Hoster Tully calls Brandon a gallant fool. It's a ruse of course. a lie to get hold of Brandon. Putting Rhaegar's name to the letter when he isn't there to countermand it; is a betrayal of Rhaegar. Tyrion tells us who is responsible" Quote A Clash of Kings - Tyrion VI "For the realm! Once Rhaegar died, the war was done. Aerys was mad, Viserys too young, Prince Aegon a babe at the breast, but the realm needed a king . . . I prayed it should be your good father, but Robert was too strong, and Lord Stark moved too swiftly . . ." "How many have you betrayed, I wonder? Aerys, Eddard Stark, me . . . King Robert as well? Lord Arryn, Prince Rhaegar? Where does it begin, Pycelle?" He knew where it ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Following on the above trail; I think it's fair to say that if Hoster Tully called Brandon a 'gallant fool', then he knew the contents of the letter. It stands to reason, that he would pass that information on to Ned, especially when Brandon is taken prisoner and Rickard is summoned to KL. What is Ned's next move? If his head isn't filled with cotton candy; then the next move is to hide Lyanna and who better to do that than Howland Reed. I think of three places where she can effectively disappear: Greywater Watch, the Isle of Faces and the Quiet Isle. This is why nothing is heard from or about Lyanna during the war. Ned knows where she is but doesn't share that with Robert. Which is why Robert thinks she's been kidnapped. The kidnapping (and rape) story originates with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted November 24, 2020 Author Share Posted November 24, 2020 I like this theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienarea Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Then the Tower of Joy is not a real event but an old dream. This explains why Ned lift's the banners on Storm's End first (he knows where Lyanna is), the fight against the kingsguard might have happened elsewhere (sack of KL?), and Lyanna could have been pregnant by someone else (Mance?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 39 minutes ago, alienarea said: Then the Tower of Joy is not a real event but an old dream. This explains why Ned lift's the banners on Storm's End first (he knows where Lyanna is), the fight against the kingsguard might have happened elsewhere (sack of KL?), and Lyanna could have been pregnant by someone else (Mance?). Still thinking about the pregnancy. Not sure at this point. When Tyrion meets Jon for the first time, he says he has more of the north in him than his siblings. Not sure what that means either. As far as Mance goes, when would he have had the opportunity? The fight with KG happened at the ToJ but it had nothing to do with Lyanna. She was not there. But I do think Jon was at Starfall, possibly not born there, but sent there. This does eliminate Brandon+Ashera for me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Sorry to interrupt, but what letter? I only recall that Brandon “heard” about Lyanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 3 hours ago, alienarea said: This explains why Ned lift's the banners on Storm's End first (he knows where Lyanna is), Stannis held Storms End. As far as I can tell, Ned’s earliest battle was Stoney Sept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 6 minutes ago, Melifeather said: Sorry to interrupt, but what letter? I only recall that Brandon “heard” about Lyanna. The letter that Brandon recieves sending him off to KL from Riverrun before his wedding. He challenges Rhaegar to come out and face him. Rhaegar isn't there. Instead Brandom is arrested and charged with conspiracy. Then Rickard is summoned to KL by the king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 10 hours ago, LynnS said: The letter that Brandon recieves sending him off to KL from Riverrun before his wedding. He challenges Rhaegar to come out and face him. Rhaegar isn't there. Instead Brandom is arrested and charged with conspiracy. Then Rickard is summoned to KL by the king. I’m not trying to disagree with your theory. I’m nitpicking a detail that Brandon received the news in a letter. The text says he “heard about” which implies someone verbally told him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted November 25, 2020 Author Share Posted November 25, 2020 Brandon doesn't strike me as the literary type. "heard about" is more likely to be a breathless messenger and more than likely an incomplete or garbled message Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 3 hours ago, Melifeather said: I’m not trying to disagree with your theory. I’m nitpicking a detail that Brandon received the news in a letter. The text says he “heard about” which implies someone verbally told him. Sure, he received some kind of message that sent him running off to KL in a huff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Nah, I'm going to go with a written message sent by messenger instead of by raven to hide Pycelle's complicity. I doubt that Brandon is illiterate but in any case Hoster Tully isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 This OP is interesting if you haven't seen it by now: A Dragonfly Among the Reeds - Is Howland Reed the Grandson of Duncan the Small? - General (ASoIaF) - A Forum of Ice and Fire - A Song of Ice and Fire & Game of Thrones (westeros.org) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.