Hoster was a really awful person

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

37 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Well let's analyze the facts that we do know:

- Lysa was madly infatuated with Petyr

- Jon was an old man, clearly not one to capture a young maiden's heart, particularly Lysa's

- Lysa we know was very happy on her wedding

- The other time we know she was happy was when she announced her pregnancy at the same time as Catelyn

- She finally went into her profound sadness when "her moonsblood came some days later". I think that her moonblood coming later is alias for the forced abortion.

 

So the abortion must have happened some 2 or 3 weeks after the wedding (the time it takes from a successful conception (Cat's to be precise) to the first period going missing). So taking that into account, the abortion must have happened several moons in.

So Lysa must have known she was pregnant on her wedding night. Taking all that into account, my theory is that Lysa was hoping to pass Littlefinger's kid for Jon's (a kind of mockingbird if you will) and that was why she was so happy at the wedding thinkin she fooled them all. However when she announced she was pregnant, Hoster or the maester must have realized she wasn't several weeks, but several months pregnant and put 2 and 2 together resulting in the tansy and Lysa getting her "moonsblood" several days later.

It's specifically stated in the books, that Jon Arryn wanted to marry Lysa because she had already been proven fertile. He urgently needed an heir. Perhaps Lysa didn't know that they knew she was pregnant, but it makes no sense to urgently marry a proven fertile woman in order to produce an heir, and then go off to war without trying to produce said heir.

Both Hoster and Jon knew she was capable of getting pregnant, hence they knew she was pregnant. Knowing that, it makes no sense to not get rid of the bastard, and try to produce a trueborn heir, before potentially getting yourself killed.

So with that in mind they must have already given her the moon tea, or at least that would've been the most logical thing to do. I think she was given the moon tea without knowing it, and her next period may have been delayed due to the earlier pregnancy, or because she got pregnant again by Jon, but miscarried, and thought she miscarried LF's child.

But nothing truly makes sense, because it she believed to be pregnant by LF, but was given the moon tea secretly, how could the bleeding induced by the moon tea not have tipped her off? We do know that Sybell Spicer secretly gives Jeyne Westerling moon tea, but Jeyne believes it will help her get pregnant, and if she would be given it during or right before her periods it wouldn't be suspicious. Unless moon tea doesn't induce bleeding..?? I don't know. But however I look at it, it never makes sense.

Unless Catelyn is wrong, neither Jon Arryn nor Hoster knew that Lysa had "proven to be fertile". Hoster didn't have many Great House options left for an alliance. He has already refused Tyrion, the Martells would never side with them, because Elia, so that would leave Willas Tyrrell I guess, although we don't know his exact age, he could be 2-10 years younger than Lysa. 10 years would be problematic, with Lysa already being sexually active. But still.. rather a crippled young boy, than a stinking old man, and the Tyrells are definitely a useful alliance.

34 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Lysa got pregnant well before her wedding to Jon Arryn. In Storm Cat is with Hoster and he keeps talking about “tansy”, and “all the blood”, implying Lysa got quite sick and/or bled a lot after drinking the moon tea. And we know Lysa not only wasn’t sick when she married, but was “radiant”. My 2p. 

Which makes one wonder why they wouldn't get rid of the bastard well before the wedding.

I mean, sure... The wedding was hastily arranged, but still messages had to be sent, terms agreed to. Was Jon Arryn already in Riverrun, because he had to travel a long way to get there too, with an army most likely. This would take at least several weeks.

I mean first Jon Arryn would say, you guys are cool and all that, but you know I think I'm staying in this time, not really in the mood for war and stuff right now.

Then Hoster learns through the Maester that Lysa is pregnant, or Lysa figures it out herself, and tells Hoster that she's pregnant so now she'll HAVE to marry LF it have a bastard (I think she would've been naive enough to genuinely believe that would work).

Then Hoster would be like: yo Arryn, dude, you need an heir right? I have a very fertile daughter who can make you one. I give her to you if you come and do war with us.

Jon: you sure? How... Do you even know that?

Hoster: yeah yeah totally sure! 100%

Jon: how do you know??

Hoster: oh, just a hunch...

Jon: yeah right... Oh well.. as long as she is young and fertile..

Presumably after this he still has to get to Riverrun with his army. Or maybe he was already there, but in that case he would basically have already joined/declared his allegiance and a marriage wouldn't have been "necessary" or at least not until after the war, like with the Robb/Frey alliance.

But Jon Arryn needed an heir FAST and would want to impregnate his wife before dying in battle.

So perhaps Catelyn is completely wrong and the "proven fertility" was not part of the deal, but in that case there's not really any reason for her to even come up with it, just to mislead the reader into thinking that Jon/Hoster are even worse people than they actually are. It's just one confusing mess, even though it's quite trivial. Of course it was important to find out that Lysa got pregnant by LF and was forced into an abortion. Of course it was also important to find out that Jon Arryn made the marriage a condition of his alliance, but there was no reason to add to that that that wife also was conveniently proven to be fertile, if that wasn't the case at that point at all. The only thing it does, is confuse the reader, while all the people involved are already dead, except LF who may not even have known at the time that Lysa was pregnant. 

[kissdbyfire]

@Manderly's Rat Cook, I'm not sure I understand what you mean... For instance, it wasn't Jon Arryn who was "undecided" about the war, it was Hoster. In fact, Jon Arryn basically kicked off the whole thing when he refused to send Aerys the heads of his wards and called his banners. So, the deal was not made so that Jon would join to get a fertile bride and hopefully heirs. The deal was to get Hoster to join the Rebellion by taking Lysa, who by then was "spoiled goods", out of her father's hands and married. 

Also, there's no way IMO that Hoster gave Lysa the moon tea on the days preceding her wedding. 

[Alyn Oakenfist]

13 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Also, there's no way IMO that Hoster gave Lysa the moon tea on the days preceding her wedding. 

Yeah let's just say it would be an awkward bedding ceremony

- "Lysa, dear, what's with all the blood and the small bloody body from between your legs"

- "Oh, it's nothing dear, it's just the dead fetus"

[Alexis-something-Rose]

There is no conspiracy here with Lysa, her father and Jon Arryn. We are given a whole timeline of events in Sansa's final chapter in ASoS. And there's more in Sansa VI, ASoS.

Lysa told her father that she was pregnant by LF. It's after that he gave her the tansy. Brandon and Catelyn's wedding date was announced sometime at the beginning of 282 AC. The duel takes place. LF is wounded, sadly doesn't die. Lysa helps take care of him and sleeps with him for the second time. He is sent away 2 weeks later. Lysa becomes pregnant, she tells her father about it at some point and he follows through with the moon tea. All of this happens before the Battle of the Bells. 

Jon Arryn goes to Hoster Tully, but Tully negotiates his entrance in the rebellion, Lysa for the swords. Jon Arryn knows that Lysa has been pregnant before. 

Father said I ought to thank the gods that so great a lord as Jon Arryn was willing to take me soiled, but I knew it was only for the swords. I had to marry Jon, or my father would have turned me out as he did his brother, but it was Petyr I was meant for. 

There's no conspiracy here. 

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

7 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

@Manderly's Rat Cook, I'm not sure I understand what you mean... For instance, it wasn't Jon Arryn who was "undecided" about the war, it was Hoster. In fact, Jon Arryn basically kicked off the whole thing when he refused to send Aerys the heads of his wards and called his banners. So, the deal was not made so that Jon would join to get a fertile bride and hopefully heirs. The deal was to get Hoster to join the Rebellion by taking Lysa, who by then was "spoiled goods", out of her father's hands and married. 

Also, there's no way IMO that Hoster gave Lysa the moon tea on the days preceding her wedding. 

Yeah I just realised I got that the indecisiveness the wrong way around.. but my actual point is that it literally makes no sense to force the abortion on Lysa AFTER the marriage. All information we have on the subject indicates that Lysa revealed that she was pregnant of LF before the marriage, hoping to marry LF.

And that both Hoster and Arryn were aware of that pregnancy, which was the reason she was used to "seal the deal". 

Even a hastily arranged marriage takes some time to arrange, and it's indicated that she must've had the abortion before the marriage, probably as soon as Hoster found out she was pregnant in the first place. 

There would be no logical reason whatsoever to wait until after the marriage, for marrying soiled goods is one thing, marrying soiled still pregnant goods another. 

Lysa nearly died of the abortion, so it was probably quite some time before the wedding.

But that doesn't explain why she's radiant during the wedding, or why all the life went out of her when her period turned out to be late.

Could be a postponed depression from the actual abortion, because believing she was pregnant again have her new hope, even if it wasn't LF's child, but it makes little sense to have the abortion weeks after the marriage, if the pregnancy was the whole reason said marriage took place with both Hoster and Arryn knowing about it.

[kissdbyfire]

5 minutes ago, Manderly's Rat Cook said:

Yeah I just realised I got that the indecisiveness the wrong way around.. but my actual point is that it literally makes no sense to force the abortion on Lysa AFTER the marriage. All information we have on the subject indicates that Lysa revealed that she was pregnant of LF before the marriage, hoping to marry LF.

And that both Hoster and Arryn were aware of that pregnancy, which was the reason she was used to "seal the deal". 

Even a hastily arranged marriage takes some time to arrange, and it's indicated that she must've had the abortion before the marriage, probably as soon as Hoster found out she was pregnant in the first place. 

There would be no logical reason whatsoever to wait until after the marriage, for marrying soiled goods is one thing, marrying soiled still pregnant goods another. 

Lysa nearly died of the abortion, so it was probably quite some time before the wedding.

But that doesn't explain why she's radiant during the wedding, or why all the life went out of her when her period turned out to be late.

Could be a postponed depression from the actual abortion, because believing she was pregnant again have her new hope, even if it wasn't LF's child, but it makes little sense to have the abortion weeks after the marriage, if the pregnancy was the whole reason said marriage took place with both Hoster and Arryn knowing about it.

That’s what I’ve been saying all along, the abortion happened before the wedding, and not mere days before it. 

[Ivan Tsarevich]

This discussion could use a timeline. Not that I have one to offer. You're sort of made me to wade through the books, however, so some quotes here.

For a start, the BotB happened before the double wedding. First, that's what it says in the Wiki. Second, I'd imagine that Ned was in a hurry to save Robert, yet they lingered in Riverrun a fortnight after the wedding. AGoT, Catelyn X.

Spoiler

Ned had lingered scarcely a fortnight with his new bride before he too had ridden off to war with promises on his lips. At least he had left her with more than words; he had given her a son. Nine moons had waxed and waned, and Robb had been born in Riverrun while his father still warred in the south. She had brought him forth in blood and pain, not knowing whether Ned would ever see him. Her son. He had been so small …

That means that Hoster Tully had already committed his troops before the wedding happened.

I think that Lysa got pregnant the fortnight after the duel of Petyr and Brandon. Simply because that's the last chance. AGoT, Catelyn VII.

Spoiler

A fortnight passed before Littlefinger was strong enough to leave Riverrun, but her lord father forbade her to visit him in the tower where he lay abed. Lysa helped their maester nurse him; she had been softer and shyer in those days. Edmure had called on him as well, but Petyr had sent him away. Her brother had acted as Brandon's squire at the duel, and Littlefinger would not forgive that. As soon as he was strong enough to be moved, Lord Hoster Tully sent Petyr Baelish away in a closed litter, to finish his healing on the Fingers, upon the windswept jut of rock where he'd been born.

Cat is not aware of more than one instance where Lysa could have lost a child during their time in Riverrun. It's after the wedding. ASoS, Catelyn I.

Spoiler

Could Tansy be some pet name he called Lysa, the way he called me Cat? Lord Hoster had mistaken her for her sister before. You'll have others, he said. Sweet babes, and trueborn. Lysa had miscarried five times, twice in the Eyrie, thrice at King's Landing . . . but never at Riverrun, where Lord Hoster would have been at hand to comfort her. Never, unless . . . unless she was with child, that first time . . .

She and her sister had been married on the same day, and left in their father's care when their new husbands had ridden off to rejoin Robert's rebellion. Afterward, when their moon blood did not come at the accustomed time, Lysa had gushed happily of the sons she was certain they carried. "Your son will be heir to Winterfell and mine to the Eyrie. Oh, they'll be the best of friends, like your Ned and Lord Robert. They'll be more brothers than cousins, truly, I just know it." She was so happy.

But Lysa's blood had come not long after, and all the joy had gone out of her. Catelyn had always thought that Lysa had simply been a little late, but if she had been with child . . .

According to Cat Jon was heirless. The same chapter.

Spoiler

If she had lost a child before, that might explain Father's words, and much else besides . . . Lysa's match with Lord Arryn had been hastily arranged, and Jon was an old man even then, older than their father. An old man without an heir. His first two wives had left him childless, his brother's son had been murdered with Brandon Stark in King's Landing, his gallant cousin had died in the Battle of the Bells. He needed a young wife if House Arryn was to continue . . . a young wife known to be fertile.

Catelyn rose, threw on a robe, and descended the steps to the darkened solar to stand over her father. A sense of helpless dread filled her. "Father," she said, "Father, I know what you did." She was no longer an innocent bride with a head full of dreams. She was a widow, a traitor, a grieving mother, and wise, wise in the ways of the world. "You made him take her," she whispered. "Lysa was the price Jon Arryn had to pay for the swords and spears of House Tully."

Small wonder her sister's marriage had been so loveless. The Arryns were proud, and prickly of their honor. Lord Jon might wed Lysa to bind the Tullys to the cause of the rebellion, and in hopes of a son, but it would have been hard for him to love a woman who came to his bed soiled and unwilling. He would have been kind, no doubt; dutiful, yes; but Lysa needed warmth.

This also confirms that the wedding was after the BotB.

Yet Denys Arryn had a son. Either Cat is missing this or he died before the wedding. AFfC, Alayne II.

Spoiler

"Lord Jasper Arryn, begin with him. Jon Arryn's father. He begot three children, two sons and a daughter. Jon was the eldest, so the Eyrie and the lordship passed to him. His sister Alys wed Ser Elys Waynwood, uncle to the present Lady Waynwood." He made a wry face. "Elys and Alys, isn't that precious? Lord Jasper's younger son, Ser Ronnel Arryn, wed a Belmore girl, but only rang her once or twice before dying of a bad belly. Their son Elbert was being born in one bed even as poor Ronnel was dying in another down the hall. Are you paying close attention, sweetling?"

"Yes. There was Jon and Alys and Ronnel, but Ronnel died."

"Good. Now, Jon Arryn married thrice, but his first two wives gave him no children, so for long years his nephew Elbert was his heir. Meantime, Elys was plowing Alys quite dutifully, and she was whelping once a year. She gave him nine children, eight girls and one precious little boy, another Jasper, after which she died exhausted. Boy Jasper, inconsiderate of the heroic efforts that had gone into begetting him, got himself kicked in the head by a horse when he was three years old. A pox took two of his sisters soon after, leaving six. The eldest married Ser Denys Arryn, a distant cousin to the Lords of the Eyrie. There are several branches of House Arryn scattered across the Vale, all as proud as they are penurious, save for the Gulltown Arryns, who had the rare good sense to marry merchants. They're rich, but less than couth, so no one talks about them. Ser Denys hailed from one of the poor, proud branches . . . but he was also a renowned jouster, handsome and gallant and brimming with courtesy. And he had that magic Arryn name, which made him ideal for the eldest Waynwood girl. Their children would be Arryns, and the next heirs to the Vale should any ill befall Elbert. Well, as it happened, Mad King Aerys befell Elbert. You know that story?"

She did. "The Mad King murdered him."

"He did indeed. And soon after, Ser Denys left his pregnant Waynwood wife to ride to war. He died during the Battle of the Bells, of an excess of gallantry and an axe. When they told his lady of his death she perished of grief, and her newborn son soon followed. No matter. Jon Arryn had gotten himself a young wife during the war, one he had reason to believe fertile. He was very hopeful, I'm sure, but you and I know that all he ever got from Lysa were stillbirths, miscarriages, and poor Sweetrobin.

I'd read this so that Jon married Lysa before Denys' son died, as I'd expect Littlefinger to be more precise. Cat doesn't mention the boy at all. The succession goes through the female line in any case, so from that viewpoint Denys should be irrelevant. Anyhow, if the boy was ailing, securing the line is an issue again.

Edit: I've realized that it makes sense if Denys' son was born after the wedding.

Also, regarding the moon tea. ASoS, Sansa VII.

Spoiler

"NO!" Lysa gave Sansa's head another wrench. Snow eddied around them, making their skirts snap noisily. "You can't want her. You can't. She's a stupid empty-headed little girl. She doesn't love you the way I have. I've always loved you. I've proved it, haven't I?" Tears ran down her aunt's puffy red face. "I gave you my maiden's gift. I would have given you a son too, but they murdered him with moon tea, with tansy and mint and wormwood, a spoon of honey and a drop of pennyroyal. It wasn't me, I never knew, I only drank what Father gave me . . ."

"That's past and done, Lysa. Lord Hoster's dead, and his old maester as well." Littlefinger moved closer. "Have you been at the wine again? You ought not to talk so much. We don't want Alayne to know more than she should, do we? Or Marillion?"

This one is not very useful, but at least I see no actual use of force. Doesn't rule out the coercion, but Lysa does not mention such. That leaves the trickery, but would even that be necessary? It's not impossible that Lysa drank the tea just because Hoster told her to.

And no, I'm not defending Hoster. Just thinking. And since I'm doing that, there's this too. The same chapter, a bit before.

Spoiler

All of Sansa's resolve had withered in the face of her aunt's onslaught. Lysa Arryn was frightening her as much as Queen Cersei ever had. "He's yours, my lady," she said, trying to sound meek and contrite. "May I have your leave to go?"

"You may not." Her aunt's breath smelled of wine. "If you were anyone else, I would banish you. Send you down to Lord Nestor at the Gates of the Moon, or back to the Fingers. How would you like to spend your life on that bleak shore, surrounded by slatterns and sheep pellets? That was what my father meant for Petyr. Everyone thought it was because of that stupid duel with Brandon Stark, but that wasn't so. Father said I ought to thank the gods that so great a lord as Jon Arryn was willing to take me soiled, but I knew it was only for the swords. I had to marry Jon, or my father would have turned me out as he did his brother, but it was Petyr I was meant for. I am telling you all this so you will understand how much we love each other, how long we have suffered and dreamed of one another. We made a baby together, a precious little baby." Lysa put her hands flat against her belly, as if the child was still there. "When they stole him from me, I made a promise to myself that I would never let it happen again. Jon wished to send my sweet Robert to Dragonstone, and that sot of a king would have given him to Cersei Lannister, but I never let them . . . no more than I'll let you steal my Petyr Littlefinger. Do you hear me, Alayne or Sansa or whatever you call yourself? Do you hear what I am telling you?"

So Lysa says she felt forced to marry Jon or to be turned out. Add that to the surrounding evidence for the coercion in the case of moon tea. Also seems to confirm that she got pregnant during the fortnight after the duel.

And Blackfish seems to have been turned out at the time. When, and where was he?

[frenin]

21 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

38 out of 50 American states beg to differ as feticide is considered murder there. But really let's not push this particular argument as it leads to the never ending rabbit whole starting with an a.

I really don't know what you wanted to prove with that. I really don't.

But that they consider abortion homicide is only just another thing they weirdly enough keep doing.

 

 

21 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Well given Cat's memories and Lysa's sudden mood shift, he probably only found out after the wedding that she was pregnant and gave her the moons tea then.

Not true at all but i think others have already done my work.

 

 

21 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

And the tansy clearly had no relation to this. It's not like medieval abortives were known to potentially cause reproductive issues, something probably massively complied by Lysa's body expelling not some egg, but a full fetus months into her pregnancy.

Tansy is a miracle, and magical, arbotifacent, like it has existed for thousands of years and the only one who has had a problem with it is Lysa.

Almost every non virgin woman takes it like water, from the lowest whore to the Queen of the Seven Kingdom without problems.

Hoster had really little reason to believe it would hurt Lysa, nor do i think that he would've forced her to it had he known beforehanded it could kill her.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

6 minutes ago, frenin said:

21 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

38 out of 50 American states beg to differ as feticide is considered murder there. But really let's not push this particular argument as it leads to the never ending rabbit whole starting with an a.

I really don't know what you wanted to prove with that. I really don't.

But that they consider abortion homicide is only just another thing they weirdly enough keep doing.

Mate, feticide and abortion are 2 veeeeeery different things. One is a rabbit whole of conflicting fundamental rights in which it's best not to delve.

The other is someone murdering a fetus by somehow forcibly triggering an abortion, usually through violence towards the mother. And no abortion is not illegal anywhere in the US, it's legal everywhere. Feticide on the other hand is illegal everywhere and considered homicide in 38 out of 50 state.

5 minutes ago, frenin said:

21 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

And the tansy clearly had no relation to this. It's not like medieval abortives were known to potentially cause reproductive issues, something probably massively complied by Lysa's body expelling not some egg, but a full fetus months into her pregnancy.

Tansy is a miracle, and magical, arbotifacent, like it has existed for thousands of years and the only one who has had a problem with it is Lysa.

Almost every non virgin woman takes it like water, from the lowest whore to the Queen of the Seven Kingdom without problems.

Hoster had really little reason to believe it would hurt Lysa, nor do i think that he would've forced her to it had he known beforehanded it could kill her.

Here's the thing thought, all the instances we see have the tea being taken immediately after the sex, so at best it's expelling a small egg. When expelling a full blown fetus, could have very different outcomes.

[frenin]

Just now, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Mate, feticide and abortion are 2 veeeeeery different things. One is a rabbit whole of conflicting fundamental rights in which it's best not to delve.

The other is someone murdering a fetus by somehow forcibly triggering an abortion, usually through violence towards the mother. And no abortion is not illegal anywhere in the US, it's legal everywhere. Feticide on the other hand is illegal everywhere and considered homicide in 38 out of 50 state.

What fetus are you talking about?? As I've said, i don't really care about what the yankees care to consider illegal. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Here's the thing thought, all the instances we see have the tea being taken immediately after the sex, so at best it's expelling a small egg. When expelling a full blown fetus, could have very different outcomes.

Not really, Cersei was already pregnant when she took the moon tea. 

What full blown fetus anyway??

[Alyn Oakenfist]

Just now, frenin said:

4 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Mate, feticide and abortion are 2 veeeeeery different things. One is a rabbit whole of conflicting fundamental rights in which it's best not to delve.

The other is someone murdering a fetus by somehow forcibly triggering an abortion, usually through violence towards the mother. And no abortion is not illegal anywhere in the US, it's legal everywhere. Feticide on the other hand is illegal everywhere and considered homicide in 38 out of 50 state.

What fetus are you talking about?? As I've said, i don't really care about what the yankees care to consider illegal. 

Ah yeah, I've forgot, you're from Spain. I have no idea the law there, but here too (Romania) it's considered full blown murder. There?

1 minute ago, frenin said:

5 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Here's the thing thought, all the instances we see have the tea being taken immediately after the sex, so at best it's expelling a small egg. When expelling a full blown fetus, could have very different outcomes.

Not really, Cersei was already pregnant when she took the moon tea. 

When?

[frenin]

35 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Ah yeah, I've forgot, you're from Spain. I have no idea the law there, but here too (Romania) it's considered full blown murder. There?

That's not a thing in Spain.  But truth be told, i just hear about it,

From what i've gathered it's not a thing in most european countries either, as the only articles i could've found are related to USA and India.  who knows.

 

40 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

When?

 

Quote

“A dozen years,” Ned said. “How is it that you have had no children by the king?” She lifted her head, defiant. “Your Robert got me with child once,” she said, her voice thick with contempt. “My brother found a woman to cleanse me. He never knew. If truth be told, I can scarcely bear for him to touch me, and I have not let him inside me for years. I know other ways to pleasure him, when he leaves his whores long enough to stagger up to my bedchamber. Whatever we do, the king is usually so drunk that he’s forgotten it all by the next morning.”

 

[Farstrider]

What offends me most about Hoster Tully was the way he treated Lord Goodbrooke's people.  Goodbrooke supported his king and government.  Dead smallfolk, lost family wealth, and ruined homes is the thanks he got for being loyal. 

[Bronn Urgandy]

Yeah Hoster Tully was a horrible bastard, and no mistake, closer to Tywin than Ned I many ways

[Angel Eyes]

11 hours ago, Bronn Urgandy said:

Yeah Hoster Tully was a horrible bastard, and no mistake, closer to Tywin than Ned I many ways

There's a Foil TV tropes entry comparing Hoster and Tywin.

• Tywin Lannister. He's a "good-guy" version of Tywin, ruthless about securing good marriage alliances for his children and willing to ride over their feelings and impulses if they disagree with him and willing to estrange himself from those, like the Blackfish, who don't play by his rules. Indeed, Tywin was in serious negotiations with Hoster Tully to marry Jaime to Lysa Tully. The main difference is that Lord Hoster truly does love his family and at the time of his death repairs his relationship with the Blackfish and died in remorse of his betrayal of his daughter.

[Angel Eyes]

On the other hand, how bad could it be, marrying Lysa to Littlefinger (aside from Littlefinger not wanting Lysa)? Kevan Lannister married the daughter of an incompetent knight whose house was disgraced, while Ned Stark's aunt was the elder of two daughters, who married a knight of little importance from the Stormlands (despite marrying into the Starks they are almost never mentioned). Even Stannis Baratheon, the heir presumptive to the throne, married Selyse Florent, who was rather low on the totem pole for that house.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

38 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

On the other hand, how bad could it be, marrying Lysa to Littlefinger

LF was too lowborn for Hoster's aspirations. He wouldn't even marry either his daughters into House Brax. And the Braxes are of higher birth than LF.

[Angel Eyes]

17 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

LF was too lowborn for Hoster's aspirations. He wouldn't even marry either his daughters into House Brax. And the Braxes are of higher birth than LF.

He was certainly willing to try and get his brother to marry into the Redwynes.

[frenin]

14 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

He was certainly willing to try and get his brother to marry into the Redwynes.

There are few houses as highbirth and as  powerful as the Redwynes are, the Tullys themselves are not as highbirth as the Redwynes.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

8 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

He was certainly willing to try and get his brother to marry into the Redwynes.

They're filthy rich and are powerful in their own right. And Olenna Tyrell is a Redwyne by blood. The Tyrells are married into House Hightower, another filthy rich and powerful family. Olenna's daughter is married to Paxter Redwyne. 

Hoster is marrying his chess pieces into power.