Improving the North

[The Winter]

Imagine that you are young Ned Stark at the end of the Robelion. You go back to Winterfell, deeply sad because of the deaths of your father, your sister and your brother. You believe that nobody would have done that to your family if the North would be the strongest kingdom, so you want to improve the North economically and military.

 

The situation for the young Lord of Winterfell at the begining of the mandate is very good: your vassals are so loyal, the King is your best friend and the Hand a man who is like a father to you and a long summer is beginning. What would yo do?

This is my choice:

      Economics: 

-Ask for the iron throne to coin silver money in the Old Mint of White Harbour. This would give the North a good financial position.

-Start serious trade with Braavos. The North have a lot of wood, wool and furs, three things braavosis can buy. 

- Start building three fleats: The Merchant fleet, The Fishing fleet and the War fleet.  The Merchant fleet for trade with Braavos, Pentos, King´s Landing,... the fishing fleet for whaling, tunas, codd,... the benefits of these two fleets would finance the War fleet. Plus the War fleet would patrol the coasts and make the sea safer for fishing and trading, in a symbiotic relationship. And in winter, a lot of young people can join the fleets and avoid the hard weather.

- Create an important port town in the West Coast. Probably in the end of the river that connects the lake of Torrhen Square with the coast. 

        Logistics:

-Create two good roads, as good as the kings road. One to connect Winterfell and White Harbour (the capital and the biggest city), the other to connect Barrowton to White Harbour (the two biggest cities).

- Become Winter Town in a proper city. Pave the streets, build a wall, and build some important things like: craftman´s school, a cristal factory, a bank (The Ice Bank),...

-Rebuild the abandoned buildings in Winterfell and give them some use. For example: the First Keep into a militar academy where the best soldiers and commanders of the north will be educated and trained.

Military:

- Rebuild Moat Cailing and put there a permanent garrison. It Does not need to be very large: I think a dozen soldier per tower (three dozens total) would be enough for peacetime.

-Train young people in the Militar Academy (the Old Keep). The sons of low nobility could be trained there to be great commanders, promising  strong and brave young commonfolks to be good warriors, the elite of the infantry.

-Create a company of 1 or 2 thousand men as a standing army. I would take the name of the badass Ruddy The Ruin and name them the Winter Wolves. People trained in the Academy would form this company, commonfolks and low nobility, very loyal to the Starks. No need to be very large: about 400-500 cavalry, same number of archers, and one or two thousand heavy infantry like roman legionaries. In peacetime, they would train and they would patrol the roads, in wartime, they would be the heart of the Stark army.

-The best warriors of the Academy would form The Guards Of Winterfell: a elite group of 300 strong and skilled soldiers to be the garrison of the castle.

 

Sorry for my poor english, I´m not native and this is the level I reached in the school when I was young.

 

 

[CamiloRP]

most of the things I would do you already said.

On 10/22/2020 at 7:10 AM, The Winter said:

      Economics: 

-Ask for the iron throne to coin silver money in the Old Mint of White Harbour. This would give the North a good financial position.

-Start serious trade with Braavos. The North have a lot of wood, wool and furs, three things braavosis can buy. 

- Start building three fleats: The Merchant fleet, The Fishing fleet and the War fleet.  The Merchant fleet for trade with Braavos, Pentos, King´s Landing,... the fishing fleet for whaling, tunas, codd,... the benefits of these two fleets would finance the War fleet. Plus the War fleet would patrol the coasts and make the sea safer for fishing and trading, in a symbiotic relationship. And in winter, a lot of young people can join the fleets and avoid the hard weather.

- Create an important port town in the West Coast. Probably in the end of the river that connects the lake of Torrhen Square with the coast. 

II find it weird that the Vale, the North and the Riverlands got nothing from the war, while Robert got the crown and Dragonstone. So I would ask him for a tax reduction or something. 

I don't think you can just 'make' an important port town.

I would also try and develop as much abandoned lands as possible, even having non-northerners come to the North to work it.

If I had extra coin I would lend it to people, gaining both money and allies. Specially I would promote loans to small time farmers, millers and such, having the economy in the North grow, while also gaining money from it. Such money could be put in breeding horses (expensive, and useful for war) and pigs (cheap and necessary).

I would also send a ship to Essos to find out what spices could be produced in the North.

On 10/22/2020 at 7:10 AM, The Winter said:

        Logistics:

-Create two good roads, as good as the kings road. One to connect Winterfell and White Harbour (the capital and the biggest city), the other to connect Barrowton to White Harbour (the two biggest cities).

- Become Winter Town in a proper city. Pave the streets, build a wall, and build some important things like: craftman´s school, a cristal factory, a bank (The Ice Bank),...

-Rebuild the abandoned buildings in Winterfell and give them some use. For example: the First Keep into a militar academy where the best soldiers and commanders of the north will be educated and trained.

 

For the bold part: Westerosi don't have schools, I don't think the North has the logistics for big scale glass work, and a bank would be unnecessary.

I would also ask Robert to split The Gift in nine, giving each part to one of the great houses and making it a position such as Dragonstone, meaning it's not inherited father to son, but's it's rather given to the brother of the lord. That would cause greater ties to the Watch from all the great houses, less investment by Winterfell and a better development of the lands. With the additional benefit of the children of the lord, because they have no inheritance, being more likely to go to the Wall. Tho something would have to be done to ensure those houses are as barred from entering war as the Watch is. The revenue would still go to the Wall.

I would also send men all over the North to try and convince people to join the NW, it's really important for the North that the Wall holds.

I would try to have as many children as possible, and having them betrothed and warded by a lot of different lords, taking wards as well, to establish better relations. Robb would be warded a year each in all the most powerful houses in the North and he would spend one year helping in the Wall without taking the black, just so he understands what it is he will be ruling some day.

 

On 10/22/2020 at 7:10 AM, The Winter said:

Military:

- Rebuild Moat Cailing and put there a permanent garrison. It Does not need to be very large: I think a dozen soldier per tower (three dozens total) would be enough for peacetime.

-Train young people in the Militar Academy (the Old Keep). The sons of low nobility could be trained there to be great commanders, promising  strong and brave young commonfolks to be good warriors, the elite of the infantry.

-Create a company of 1 or 2 thousand men as a standing army. I would take the name of the badass Ruddy The Ruin and name them the Winter Wolves. People trained in the Academy would form this company, commonfolks and low nobility, very loyal to the Starks. No need to be very large: about 400-500 cavalry, same number of archers, and one or two thousand heavy infantry like roman legionaries. In peacetime, they would train and they would patrol the roads, in wartime, they would be the heart of the Stark army.

-The best warriors of the Academy would form The Guards Of Winterfell: a elite group of 300 strong and skilled soldiers to be the garrison of the castle.

the only of these things I agree with is the first one (and building warships) the rest seem unrealistic for Westeros, too expensive both on the wages it would require and because those people wouldn't be working (and generating value) most of the time.

Alliances are the most important thing in war, having your children warded by your vassals, and warding your vassal's children. Then I would try to marry Robb to Margeary, Sansa to Joff, Arya to Tristane/Sweetrobin, Bran to Shireen and Rickon to Edmure's daughter if he gets any (he's to young to engage anyway). 

[Lion of the West]

It seems to me that the biggest problem for the North is the winter. I would try to create some form of infrastructure of storages to ensure that less people die during the winter I'm not sure how much can be done in regards to the economics in this setting unless you can have a reliable demographic growth and not get the populated culled every 5-7 years or so.

[TheLastWolf]

53 minutes ago, Lion of the West said:

It seems to me that the biggest problem for the North is the winter

We'll, they have survived for 8-10,000 years, maybe longer. After all, house Stark's words say Winter is Coming. Like how the Dornish use their Sun. 

[Lion of the West]

10 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

We'll, they have survived for 8-10,000 years, maybe longer. After all, house Stark's words say Winter is Coming. Like how the Dornish use their Sun. 

Given how people "go off to die" I'd say that the winter is still holding the population growth back. I could be wrong of course but that kind of season would be a major determinetal effect on the demograpthics.

[Bernie Mac]

On 10/22/2020 at 11:10 AM, The Winter said:

Imagine that you are young Ned Stark at the end of the Robelion. You go back to Winterfell, deeply sad because of the deaths of your father, your sister and your brother. You believe that nobody would have done that to your family if the North would be the strongest kingdom, so you want to improve the North economically and military.

 

The situation for the young Lord of Winterfell at the begining of the mandate is very good: your vassals are so loyal, the King is your best friend and the Hand a man who is like a father to you and a long summer is beginning. What would yo do?

This is my choice:

      Economics: 

-Ask for the iron throne to coin silver money in the Old Mint of White Harbour. This would give the North a good financial position.

-Start serious trade with Braavos. The North have a lot of wood, wool and furs, three things braavosis can buy. 

- Start building three fleats: The Merchant fleet, The Fishing fleet and the War fleet.  The Merchant fleet for trade with Braavos, Pentos, King´s Landing,... the fishing fleet for whaling, tunas, codd,... the benefits of these two fleets would finance the War fleet. Plus the War fleet would patrol the coasts and make the sea safer for fishing and trading, in a symbiotic relationship. And in winter, a lot of young people can join the fleets and avoid the hard weather.

- Create an important port town in the West Coast. Probably in the end of the river that connects the lake of Torrhen Square with the coast. 

        Logistics:

-Create two good roads, as good as the kings road. One to connect Winterfell and White Harbour (the capital and the biggest city), the other to connect Barrowton to White Harbour (the two biggest cities).

- Become Winter Town in a proper city. Pave the streets, build a wall, and build some important things like: craftman´s school, a cristal factory, a bank (The Ice Bank),...

-Rebuild the abandoned buildings in Winterfell and give them some use. For example: the First Keep into a militar academy where the best soldiers and commanders of the north will be educated and trained.

Military:

- Rebuild Moat Cailing and put there a permanent garrison. It Does not need to be very large: I think a dozen soldier per tower (three dozens total) would be enough for peacetime.

-Train young people in the Militar Academy (the Old Keep). The sons of low nobility could be trained there to be great commanders, promising  strong and brave young commonfolks to be good warriors, the elite of the infantry.

-Create a company of 1 or 2 thousand men as a standing army. I would take the name of the badass Ruddy The Ruin and name them the Winter Wolves. People trained in the Academy would form this company, commonfolks and low nobility, very loyal to the Starks. No need to be very large: about 400-500 cavalry, same number of archers, and one or two thousand heavy infantry like roman legionaries. In peacetime, they would train and they would patrol the roads, in wartime, they would be the heart of the Stark army.

-The best warriors of the Academy would form The Guards Of Winterfell: a elite group of 300 strong and skilled soldiers to be the garrison of the castle.

 

Sorry for my poor english, I´m not native and this is the level I reached in the school when I was young.

 

 

Why do you think Ned, ,Rickard and their other predecessors have not thought of this? Do you think they are not very bright? That every Stark Lord has been a dumbass who has no concept of economics, no desire to be wealthier, for his people to be wealthier? 

 

Most of what you are suggesting is likely untenable for the North, that it simply does not have the finances to do what you suggest.

 

 

[talvikorppi]

I'd think the North has tradeable goods.

They have lots of timber, which the Iron Islands and Braavos would want for their ship building. (Though, I think, why wouldn't the Braavosi just set up a shipyard in the North? Instead of shipping raw timber to Braavos? Hm?)

Tar. It takes a kind of northern trees/forests to produce tar on a commercial scale. There's a historic precedent in our world. The English Navy depended on tar from my country.

Furs. It was the basis of IRL northern trade. A luxury good, well worth the difficult trade relations/routes.

The North might never be rich but it's perfectly economically viable, unless the lords get greedy and want to emulate southron lords and get personally rich. (Hee-llooo, Scottish history, lol)

 

[Northern Sword]

On 10/22/2020 at 5:10 AM, The Winter said:

Imagine that you are young Ned Stark at the end of the Robelion. You go back to Winterfell, deeply sad because of the deaths of your father, your sister and your brother. You believe that nobody would have done that to your family if the North would be the strongest kingdom, so you want to improve the North economically and military.

 

The situation for the young Lord of Winterfell at the begining of the mandate is very good: your vassals are so loyal, the King is your best friend and the Hand a man who is like a father to you and a long summer is beginning. What would yo do?

This is my choice:

      Economics: 

-Ask for the iron throne to coin silver money in the Old Mint of White Harbour. This would give the North a good financial position.

-Start serious trade with Braavos. The North have a lot of wood, wool and furs, three things braavosis can buy. 

- Start building three fleats: The Merchant fleet, The Fishing fleet and the War fleet.  The Merchant fleet for trade with Braavos, Pentos, King´s Landing,... the fishing fleet for whaling, tunas, codd,... the benefits of these two fleets would finance the War fleet. Plus the War fleet would patrol the coasts and make the sea safer for fishing and trading, in a symbiotic relationship. And in winter, a lot of young people can join the fleets and avoid the hard weather.

- Create an important port town in the West Coast. Probably in the end of the river that connects the lake of Torrhen Square with the coast. 

        Logistics:

-Create two good roads, as good as the kings road. One to connect Winterfell and White Harbour (the capital and the biggest city), the other to connect Barrowton to White Harbour (the two biggest cities).

- Become Winter Town in a proper city. Pave the streets, build a wall, and build some important things like: craftman´s school, a cristal factory, a bank (The Ice Bank),...

-Rebuild the abandoned buildings in Winterfell and give them some use. For example: the First Keep into a militar academy where the best soldiers and commanders of the north will be educated and trained.

Military:

- Rebuild Moat Cailing and put there a permanent garrison. It Does not need to be very large: I think a dozen soldier per tower (three dozens total) would be enough for peacetime.

-Train young people in the Militar Academy (the Old Keep). The sons of low nobility could be trained there to be great commanders, promising  strong and brave young commonfolks to be good warriors, the elite of the infantry.

-Create a company of 1 or 2 thousand men as a standing army. I would take the name of the badass Ruddy The Ruin and name them the Winter Wolves. People trained in the Academy would form this company, commonfolks and low nobility, very loyal to the Starks. No need to be very large: about 400-500 cavalry, same number of archers, and one or two thousand heavy infantry like roman legionaries. In peacetime, they would train and they would patrol the roads, in wartime, they would be the heart of the Stark army.

-The best warriors of the Academy would form The Guards Of Winterfell: a elite group of 300 strong and skilled soldiers to be the garrison of the castle.

 

Sorry for my poor english, I´m not native and this is the level I reached in the school when I was young.

 

 

Love the idea and agree with a lot of your ideas. I've thought about this as well. Ned and Robert were so close. Yet, Winterfell didn't get much in the way of benefits post war.

How to make the north stronger and more resilient.

Roads. This makes so much sense to connect Winterfell to White Harbor and Barrowton with roads. A road heading east/south-east off the Kings Road, from south of Cerwyn Castle to Barrowton. Fork the road to Torrhen's Square. Could even make a new farming town at that fork. Then a White Harbor road. Connect White Harbor to the Kings Road. Could also go east all the way to Barrowton. You could even get crazy and punch a road north from White Harbor to connect to Winterfell and the Hornwood and that interior area.

Farming. Knowing how dicey food can be during winter. Increasing food supply by expanding farming villages in the southern areas of the north would be a priority. The development of roads would help with this.

Fishing. Would help with food security during winter. Makes so much sense. Both coasts.

Trade. It never gets mentioned, but White harbor is so well positioned to trade with Pentos and Bravos. Does this happen much now? Expand it. I'm sure in an area as big as the north, there would be commodities that have value and could be traded(fur, wood, etc..). 

Winterfell. Increased food supply and transportation would help the development of an expanded Winter town(I have always wanted this). If you had Winter Town at a decent size, you could then develop Winterfell as a place with a school or academy or something unique that fills a need or is valuable enough to trade. 

Military. The expansion of food supply for Winterfell and Winter Town would make a northern standing army feasible. It wouldn't and couldn't be big. Even 500 infantry, 300 bows and 200 horse, or something like that to carry out the Warden of the Norths orders(fuck ya) would be enough. Winterfell is huge, build a new large barracks, stables and food storage. I like the academy idea. A school that lords and chieftain's heirs could go to for a short time and be taught weapons, tactics and strategy. Love the Guards of Winterfell idea too.

Increasing food supply and storage would be my main focus to start. That would lead to increases in population and military strength.

[Lady_Qohor]

Sell Ice (the Valyrian steel sword, not frozen water).

The Lannister’s or Tyrells would pay a lot of money for a Valyrian Sword that's big enough to create two blades. 

Ned could easily get by with a well made castle forged sword and Ice offers nothing to the North other than a little bit of prestige and boosting the Stark's egos. Far better to sell it and use the cash to pay for some of the good ideas mentioned by commenters above. 

[Jaenara Belarys]

On 4/16/2021 at 5:46 AM, Lady_Qohor said:

Sell Ice (the Valyrian steel sword, not frozen water).

 

NOOOOO!!! That goddamn sword is an ancestral sword, not a sword for some southron lordling. The Lannisters and Tyrells can go screw themselves, I'm keeping it. ANYWAY:

Do the Old Mint idea, but you're going to have to get silver from somewhere. Maybe purchase from the Westerlands?

Build a larger fleet: 25-100 war galleys, 25-100 longships, 25-100 dromonds, and then build merchant ships and fishing boats to your heart's desire

The coin to pay for all of this will come from selling wood, furs, etc to Braavos and beyond. Use the wood near the Wall, since it helps defend it better by making it slightly harder to climb, and in the rest of the haunted forest

Turn the winter town into a proper town. Use the rock from the hills and all over to build proper stone roads rather than narrow muddy tracks. 

Buy slaves and free them in the North to help populate it. It gets those poor guys out of slavery (which is disgusting), and properly populates your lands.

Rebuild Moat Cailin from granite and basalt, no wood keeps. Build the kingsroad so that it runs right up to the gate. You can make people pay a toll to pass, Frey style.

Use those broken buildings for something. Garrison, or servant's quarters.

Assemble a standing army: Use that name that the great Roddy the Ruin used, the Winter Wolves. Have a force of 10,000-20,000 men. Maybe bring over the Golden Company and offer them lands and gold to serve as the standing army? Have roughly 1000-1500 archers (longbows, double curved bows, crossbows). 5000-8000 horse, heavy and light. Maybe bring over some Dothraki to teach how to shoot from horseback? 2000-6000 spearmen. Equip the spearmen with suits of mail and breastplates, with shields. 

Build more Glass Gardens in White Harbor and others, use all that abundant wood to heat it. It makes it so that you can feed people fresh stuff in winter. Build massive warehouses and stock it with spare food for winter

Build a western port on Sea Dragon Point.

KILL ALL BOLTONS

I may have missed a few odds and ends, but that's what I suggest.

On 10/29/2020 at 4:26 PM, CamiloRP said:

Then I would try to marry Robb to Margeary, Sansa to Joff, Arya to Tristane/Sweetrobin, Bran to Shireen and Rickon to Edmure's daughter if he gets any (he's to young to engage anyway).

NO SANSA/JOFFREY. Do Robb to Margaery, Arya to Trystane, Bran to Shireen and Rickon to some stormlord's daughter.

On 11/6/2020 at 1:43 PM, Bernie Mac said:

Why do you think Ned, ,Rickard and their other predecessors have not thought of this? Do you think they are not very bright? That every Stark Lord has been a dumbass who has no concept of economics, no desire to be wealthier, for his people to be wealthier? 

 

Most of what you are suggesting is likely untenable for the North, that it simply does not have the finances to do what you suggest.

You don't have to be salty, ser.

 

[CamiloRP]

21 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

NO SANSA/JOFFREY.

Why?

[Jaenara Belarys]

6 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

Why?

BECAUSE JOFFREY IS A PSYCHOPATH 

[CamiloRP]

3 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

BECAUSE JOFFREY IS A PSYCHOPATH 

But as Guardian of the North I wouldn't know that. If we are able to bring knowledge we don''t have to the table then I guess I would bring the industrial revolution to the North and that's it.

[Jaenara Belarys]

Maybe marry Sansa to Tommen......Tommen's not a creep that'll have the Kingsguard beat you.

[The Hoare]

I think there's nothing he can do at all. The main problem in Westeros is the nobility.

[Leonardo]

On 11/6/2020 at 3:43 PM, Bernie Mac said:

Why do you think Ned, ,Rickard and their other predecessors have not thought of this? Do you think they are not very bright? That every Stark Lord has been a dumbass who has no concept of economics, no desire to be wealthier, for his people to be wealthier? 

 

Most of what you are suggesting is likely untenable for the North, that it simply does not have the finances to do what you suggest.

 

 

The entire point of the topic is the North is in a very unique position; it served faithfully, the lord of the north is BEST FRIENDS with the new king, and the new hand of the king is like a father to the lord of the north.

 

We're not shitting on Eddard, but there is an opportunity here to grow. Some of these, like building a fleet, have merit.

[Lady_Qohor]

3 hours ago, Leonardo said:

The entire point of the topic is the North is in a very unique position; it served faithfully, the lord of the north is BEST FRIENDS with the new king, and the new hand of the king is like a father to the lord of the north.

 

We're not shitting on Eddard, but there is an opportunity here to grow. Some of these, like building a fleet, have merit.

That's a good point. Ned is probably the most powerful Stark since Cregan Stark during the hour of the wolf. It's a shame he was too honourable to use those connections to the North's advantage. 

BTW do we know if Cregan ever leveraged his moment in the sun for the North's advantage? 

[CamiloRP]

On 4/16/2021 at 3:23 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

Maybe marry Sansa to Tommen......Tommen's not a creep that'll have the Kingsguard beat you.

Again, I can't know that.

[Lady_Qohor]

15 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

Again, I can't know that.

Yes but you could find out. Sansa's only 11 at the start of the story. Ned has plenty of time (not to mention the years before) to find out more about Joffrey before agreeing to a betrothal. Its not unreasonable to wait to get to know and find out more about your potential son-in-law before you agree to hand over your 11 year old daughter to him.

[Endymion I Targaryen]

When I first read World of Ice and Fire I had these questions:

1. How could the North not base on fishing and fish trading? If Braavos and Ibben could why not the North? Make ports in western coasts (Deepwood Motte, Bear Islands, Sea Dragon point) and conquer the northwestern seas. Same for east. White Harbour and Karhold can become fishing ports and trading posts. They could even enter oil trade like Ibben.

2. The North has many forests but no wood trade unlike Qohor. How can this happen?

Ned was a good lord of the North but he didnt gain much by his best friend becoming king. I believe he could become a second Hoster Tully and marry his children to the same bloc that supported Robert. He gets a Robb - Myrcella wedding (he is the kings best friend), Sansa - Edmure (uncle - niece wedding is ok in Westeros) so the fertile Riverlands help the North in food shortages and Arya - Robert Arryn which can also provide food for the North.