Improving the North

[Loose Bolt]

17 hours ago, Anthony Appleyard said:

Domesticated mammoths. Canon text in WoIaF shows that The North has mammoths. A domesticated mammoth ridden by a mahout (or whatever is the Westerosi word) would be useful for travel in deep snow, and by swinging its head with its long curved tusks to brush deep snow aside, plus its sense of smell as good as a hound's, it could find people lost in deep snow.

 

I assume that during winters all available mammoths will be eaten by hungry people and if winter last long enough desperate northmen would first eat their horses and every other animal they could find b4 some of them start eating people. 

[Lady_Qohor]

19 hours ago, Anthony Appleyard said:

Domesticated mammoths. Canon text in WoIaF shows that The North has mammoths. A domesticated mammoth ridden by a mahout (or whatever is the Westerosi word) would be useful for travel in deep snow, and by swinging its head with its long curved tusks to brush deep snow aside, plus its sense of smell as good as a hound's, it could find people lost in deep snow.

 

This is an amazing idea, I can't believe I haven't seen it before. If mammoths can survive north of the wall, they can certainly survive south of the wall. 

Farming any animal for meat is going to be inefficient in terms of quantity and I imagine mammoths don't taste great (people in Asia don't seem to like eating elephants) but it might be possible to make some money from their fur and ivory is definitely valuable. 

They would also be a great source of labour. The North is very poor on infrastructure and mammoths could be a cheap and quick way to drag around all the materials you need to build roads, bridges and buildings. 

[Brandon Ice-Eyes]

On 4/27/2021 at 3:08 PM, Anthony Appleyard said:

Domesticated mammoths. Canon text in WoIaF shows that The North has mammoths. A domesticated mammoth ridden by a mahout (or whatever is the Westerosi word) would be useful for travel in deep snow, and by swinging its head with its long curved tusks to brush deep snow aside, plus its sense of smell as good as a hound's, it could find people lost in deep snow.

 

Mammoths and Elephants aren’t able to be domesticated however elephants can be tamed and I’d imagine mammoths could too. They could be somewhat useful for hard labour in carrying resources on large construction projects but there main use would most likely be for war. In our own world war elephants, and in planetos as we’re seeing with fAegon and Jon Con, were very dangerous if used properly and I think it would have been a nice touch to have The North use War Mammoths. They’d be fairly useless like war elephants in the wrong hands but when put in the right hands they could disrupt entire legions and decimate cavalry.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_elephant
 

 

[Anthony Appleyard]

On 4/27/2021 at 3:08 PM, Anthony Appleyard said:

Domesticated mammoths. Canon text in WoIaF shows that The North has mammoths. A domesticated mammoth ridden by a mahout (or whatever is the Westerosi word) would be useful for travel in deep snow, and by swinging its head with its long curved tusks to brush deep snow aside, plus its sense of smell as good as a hound's, it could find people lost in deep snow.

 

The GRRM books desribe a case of north-of-the-Wall wildlings attacking the Wall bringing a mammoth with them.

The last of the 5 or 7 (it varies) GRRM main-story-line books that we have so far, says that in the big evacuation of the wildlings to south of the Wall, the wildlings brought a big herd of mammoths with them.

Several archers could usefully ride on a mammoth and there could see above ground obstacles. Best if they rode in a spear-and-arrow-proof howdah.

In the spring, if the mammoth was trained to stand still on command, its shed winter hair could be pulled off and collected and used.

Ivory :: a steady harvest of ivory could be had by waiting for death by natural causes.

I am one of the (likely) many who have been working on a WoIaF/GoT fan-fiction story, and in it I include this bit:

"Time passed. Each time a winter ended, as spring warm came, his mammoths shed their long winter hair; they had learned to stand still on order while men combed the sheddings out. It was spun and woven into strong cloth. Some local sea-fishermen tarred such cloth and used it as sea-clothes, as much as could be made. Birds collected loose shed hairs of it and lined nests with it. One of his mammoths calved. At ten months old its calf shed its milk tusks as the tips of its permanent tusks came through. When dark prevented outside work, he carved the milk tusks into seal-stamps, one with his wife's seal sigil on; and the other with his seal sigil on, a rearing horse (presumedly, and later in painted images actually, chestnut-coloured after his first horse), half-emerged from wavy water, as he still had struggles against the fury of the sea; some said that the Ironmen's Drowned God was trying to get back land that he had stolen from the sea. He built a holdfast to keep crops and valuables safe in on a rock that stood up in his reclaimed land by his harbour."

 

[Rose of Red Lake]

I think keeping the peace after a hellish rebellion was about all Ned was focused on during those interim years. Remember, he also had to fight a Greyjoy Rebellion and raise all those kids + keep Jon at a distance.

The Starks are master preppers so I imagine that they had a system down which had worked well enough for them in terms of survival. Otherwise their House words mean nothing.

Jon mentions how Ned wanted to settle the Gift. Maybe that was his first policy plan during the 17 years.

Bartering and trading for food, using diplomacy is probably what the North needs to do more of. 

 

[Universal Sword Donor]

On 4/20/2021 at 11:54 AM, CamiloRP said:

Before you hurry me into replying to something I'm already replying to, you still haven't answered how is Tyrion different from a real world dude who kills his ex.

I'd imagine most real world ex girlfriends don't perjure themselves to get you falsely convicted of a murder. That would piss me off pretty heavily too, sort of a "don't endorse it but I understand" kinda thing.

[Universal Sword Donor]

On 4/27/2021 at 10:08 AM, Anthony Appleyard said:

Domesticated mammoths. Canon text in WoIaF shows that The North has mammoths. A domesticated mammoth ridden by a mahout (or whatever is the Westerosi word) would be useful for travel in deep snow, and by swinging its head with its long curved tusks to brush deep snow aside, plus its sense of smell as good as a hound's, it could find people lost in deep snow.

Well the app uh doesn't say they're in the North (at least the iOS version). It says they are north of the wall. There were some left traveling around the wall in ADWD. That said I don't know if their usefulness would translate to worth keeping them around south of the wall.

[Universal Sword Donor]

On 4/16/2021 at 1:47 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

NOOOOO!!! That goddamn sword is an ancestral sword, not a sword for some southron lordling. The Lannisters and Tyrells can go screw themselves, I'm keeping it. ANYWAY:

100% on board

On 4/16/2021 at 1:47 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

Do the Old Mint idea, but you're going to have to get silver from somewhere. Maybe purchase from the Westerlands?

Given the amount of silver being minted during the Wo5K, it would appear WH has its own silver mines.

On 4/16/2021 at 1:47 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

Build a larger fleet: 25-100 war galleys, 25-100 longships, 25-100 dromonds, and then build merchant ships and fishing boats to your heart's desire

Already underway but building merchant ships also requires experienced sailors (on top of the warships) and that's something that WH *might* be lacking. Manderly's pretext for Davos doesn't pass the smell test

On 4/16/2021 at 1:47 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

The coin to pay for all of this will come from selling wood, furs, etc to Braavos and beyond. Use the wood near the Wall, since it helps defend it better by making it slightly harder to climb, and in the rest of the haunted forest

Frankly unless there is a a rare timber Braavos desires, like weirwood, shipping timber across the narrow sea is just not feasible. It's 100x easier to ship it on barges or in its raw form down rivers in Essos. There are reasons why Canada and the US didn't ship as muchtimber back to England or Europe during their time as colonies. They simply processed it here and built the ships. Baltics dominated that and it's much shorter trip.

On 4/16/2021 at 1:47 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

Turn the winter town into a proper town. Use the rock from the hills and all over to build proper stone roads rather than narrow muddy tracks. 

The winter town is a proper town but making every road stone is gonna be prohibitively expensive.

On 4/16/2021 at 1:47 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

Buy slaves and free them in the North to help populate it. It gets those poor guys out of slavery (which is disgusting), and properly populates your lands.

This is insanely expensive and a bad idea considering they won't speak the common tongue and you've gotta ship em back to Westeros.

On 4/16/2021 at 1:47 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

Rebuild Moat Cailin from granite and basalt, no wood keeps. Build the kingsroad so that it runs right up to the gate. You can make people pay a toll to pass, Frey style.

Rebuilding the keep will be seen as a challenge to the crown. As far as the toll sure but how much money it will actually generate vs discourage is a solid question. The north is such a large country that most merchants would give it a wide pass for more densely populated regions.

On 4/16/2021 at 1:47 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

Use those broken buildings for something. Garrison, or servant's quarters.

Assemble a standing army: Use that name that the great Roddy the Ruin used, the Winter Wolves. Have a force of 10,000-20,000 men. Maybe bring over the Golden Company and offer them lands and gold to serve as the standing army? Have roughly 1000-1500 archers (longbows, double curved bows, crossbows). 5000-8000 horse, heavy and light. Maybe bring over some Dothraki to teach how to shoot from horseback? 2000-6000 spearmen. Equip the spearmen with suits of mail and breastplates, with shields. 

This would be so insanely expensive it would bankrupt the IT several times over. Completely unfeasible for the North

On 4/16/2021 at 1:47 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

Build more Glass Gardens in White Harbor and others, use all that abundant wood to heat it. It makes it so that you can feed people fresh stuff in winter. Build massive warehouses and stock it with spare food for winter

This is definitely an idea but as Jon notes in ADWD it's expensive to make that kind of glass and the only people can do it are in Myr.

On 4/16/2021 at 1:47 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

Build a western port on Sea Dragon Point.

There's not enough people or resources to justify a port there. The best option is Bear Island or maybe the barrows or the rills.

On 4/16/2021 at 1:47 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

KILL ALL BOLTONS

Good luck with that. 2nd or 3rd most powerful vassal and loyal for an eon

[taykies]

On 4/8/2021 at 8:35 PM, Northern Sword said:

Love the idea and agree with a lot of your ideas. I've thought about this as well. Ned and Robert were so close. Yet, Winterfell didn't get much in the way of benefits post war.

How to make the north stronger and more resilient.

Roads. This makes so much sense to connect Winterfell to White Harbor and Barrowton with roads. A road heading east/south-east off the Kings Road, from south of Cerwyn Castle to Barrowton. Fork the road to Torrhen's Square. Could even make a new farming town at that fork. Then a White Harbor road. Connect White Harbor to the Kings Road. Could also go east all the way to Barrowton. You could check at website even get crazy and punch a road north from White Harbor to connect to Winterfell and the Hornwood and that interior area.

Farming. Knowing how dicey food can be during winter. Increasing food supply by expanding farming villages in the southern areas of the north would be a priority. The development of roads would help with this.

Fishing. Would help with food security during winter. Makes so much sense. Both coasts.

Trade. It never gets mentioned, but White harbor is so well positioned to trade with Pentos and Bravos. Does this happen much now? Expand it. I'm sure in an area as big as the north, there would be commodities that have value and could be traded(fur, wood, etc..). 

Winterfell. Increased food supply and transportation would help the development of an expanded Winter town(I have always wanted this). If you had Winter Town at a decent size, you could then develop Winterfell as a place with a school or academy or something unique that fills a need or is valuable enough to trade. 

Military. The expansion of food supply for Winterfell and Winter Town would make a northern standing army feasible. It wouldn't and couldn't be big. Even 500 infantry, 300 bows and 200 horse, or something like that to carry out the Warden of the Norths orders(fuck ya) would be enough. Winterfell is huge, build a new large barracks, stables and food storage. I like the academy idea. A school that lords and chieftain's heirs could go to for a short time and be taught weapons, tactics and strategy. Love the Guards of Winterfell idea too.

Increasing food supply and storage would be my main focus to start. That would lead to increases in population and military strength.

Such a sensible thoughts, i agree with most of things, except of need of military strength.

[Kinola]

What about strengthening ties with Skagos?

[TheLastWolf]

8 hours ago, Kinola said:

What about strengthening ties with Skagos?

We don't know if the conflict is real or part of the Great Northern Conspiracy 

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

On 6/19/2021 at 10:26 PM, Kinola said:

What about strengthening ties with Skagos?

They should at least start doing that with the mining of obsidian in Skagos, the island is full of it.