Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Mrstrategy

Did the pro Bolton houses withheld troops from Robb

Recommended Posts

Did the pro Bolton houses in the north withheld troops from Robb secretly when he marched south to free his father Ned stark since we know Ramsay could raise several hundred troops and was able to defeat the stark bannermen,Laying siege to winterfell to recapture it not to mention that lady Dustin send very few men with Robb while a lot of the houses more loyal to starks left barely any troops to defend the north as show when the ironborn invaded and capture house glover castle and house hornwood where Ramsay manage to raid its lands forcing house hornwoods to have to request help from winterfell

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's no way that anyone could have foreseen Roose Bolton's betrayal, let alone his success in betraying House Stark. Lady Dustin didn't like Ned Stark; she withheld her full support for pettiness, not treason. I can only imagine that House Ryswell did the same thing, considering that Dustin is Lord Ryswell's daughter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The hundreds Ramsey had were probably the garrison roose left him. Plus their are thousands of peasant which can still be mustered.

In the Ryswell and Dustin case, they obviously withheld men due to their grudge with Ned stark. Plus I doubt the Ryswells kept good relations with roose. So they were never aligned with the leech lord. They were doing their own thing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, The Young Maester said:

The hundreds Ramsey had were probably the garrison roose left him. Plus their are thousands of peasant which can still be mustered.

In the Ryswell and Dustin case, they obviously withheld men due to their grudge with Ned stark. Plus I doubt the Ryswells kept good relations with roose. So they were never aligned with the leech lord. They were doing their own thing. 

The Ryswells married their daugher to Roose and one of Lord Ryswell's sons seems to be named after Roose.

"Unlikely. And those boots would come dear. They would cost us Barrowton, House Dustin, and the Ryswells." Roose Bolton seated himself across the table from his son. "Barbrey Dustin is my second wife's younger sister, Rodrik Ryswell's daughter, sister to Roger, Rickard, and mine own namesake, Roose, cousin to the other Ryswells.

 

13 hours ago, Mrstrategy said:

Did the pro Bolton houses in the north withheld troops from Robb secretly when he marched south to free his father Ned

There was no pro Bolton movement at that point, no one could have suspected that there would be a huge civil war, Ned would be executed, Robb crowned etc.

Some Lords in the North were cautious, did not want to weaken their own position, some Lords were overzealous, committed too many men not realizing how long they'd be gone for.

I don't think any of this is conspiracy, just not all Lords are the same. Some, like the Mountain Clans, would prioritize getting ready for Winter rather than playing the Game of Thrones in the South, others, like the Umbers and Karstarks, over committed in the hopes of glory and Lannister ransoms.

13 hours ago, Mrstrategy said:

stark since we know Ramsay could raise several hundred troops and was able to defeat the stark bannermen,

In fairness the Karstarks and Umbers both raised several hundred men back in the North. The Karstarks were loyalists until Robb murdered their Lord. This would not be on him.

 

13 hours ago, Mrstrategy said:

 

Laying siege to winterfell to recapture it not to mention that lady Dustin send very few men with Robb

No, not very few.

Barrowton sent men with the Young Wolf as well. I gave him as few men as I dared, but I knew that I must needs give him some or risk the wroth of Winterfell. So I had my own eyes and ears in that host.

We have no idea what percentage of her forces she sent, or how this compares to the other Lords of the North.

13 hours ago, Mrstrategy said:

 

while a lot of the houses more loyal to starks left barely any troops to defend the north as show when the ironborn invaded and capture house glover castle and house hornwood where Ramsay manage to raid its lands forcing house hornwoods to have to request help from winterfell

This is down to geography though. The Dreadfort has not faced the same threats. It is possible that their lands, if not the Dreadfort, would also have been overrun should it have been attacked in the same way that the coast or Hornwood was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

The Ryswells married their daugher to Roose and one of Lord Ryswell's sons seems to be named after Roose.

"Unlikely. And those boots would come dear. They would cost us Barrowton, House Dustin, and the Ryswells." Roose Bolton seated himself across the table from his son. "Barbrey Dustin is my second wife's younger sister, Rodrik Ryswell's daughter, sister to Roger, Rickard, and mine own namesake, Roose, cousin to the other Ryswells.

The product of that union was dead before agot. 

Seeing how barbrey suspects Ramsey of murdering her nephew. We can assume she shared these thoughts with her kin. So the ryswell would’ve kept a neutral opinion towards house Bolton. No doubt some degree of hatred for Ramsey. 

Obviously Rooses previous marriage with the lady ryswell is what made the ryswells more willing to support him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, The Young Maester said:

The product of that union was dead before agot. 

And? Why would the Ryswells stop having good relations with Roose as a result?

The Ryswells were one of the first to joing Ramsay in the North, even before his father arrived

Besides, where would he run to? Behind him were the camps, crowded with Dreadfort men and those the Ryswells had brought from the Rills, with the Barrowton host between them.

And the Ryswells are constantly in his company.

Roose Bolton entered, pale-eyed and yawning, accompanied by his plump and pregnant wife, Fat Walda. Several lords and captains had preceded him, amongst them Whoresbane Umber, Aenys Frey, and Roger Ryswell. Farther down the table Wyman Manderly sat wolfing down sausages and boiled eggs, whilst old Lord Locke beside him spooned gruel into his toothless mouth.

While the likes of Wyman and Locke are kept far away. But I don't know why I need to go on, given I'm not the one making the claim. The claim was Plus I doubt the Ryswells kept good relations with roose.

What is the evidence for this?

 

Edited by Bernie Mac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

And? Why would the Ryswells stop having good relations with Roose as a result?

The Ryswells were one of the first to joing Ramsay in the North, even before his father arrived

Besides, where would he run to? Behind him were the camps, crowded with Dreadfort men and those the Ryswells had brought from the Rills, with the Barrowton host between them.

And the Ryswells are constantly in his company.

Roose Bolton entered, pale-eyed and yawning, accompanied by his plump and pregnant wife, Fat Walda. Several lords and captains had preceded him, amongst them Whoresbane Umber, Aenys Frey, and Roger Ryswell. Farther down the table Wyman Manderly sat wolfing down sausages and boiled eggs, whilst old Lord Locke beside him spooned gruel into his toothless mouth.

While the likes of Wyman and Locke are kept far away. But I don't know why I need to go on, given I'm not the one making the claim. The claim was Plus I doubt the Ryswells kept good relations with roose.

What is the evidence for this?

 

It’s clear they dislike Ramsey. After domeric died, roose was quick to bring Ramsey into the dreadfort (basically making him his heir in all but name). I doubt they would’ve liked it when a bastard took their nephew/grandsons place.

Bringing Ramsey could’ve made roose lose favour with the ryswells. Don’t think they hated roose but more like they kept themselves neutral towards him.

They obviously like roose more than Ned which is why they are so quick to support roose. Plus they will receive the most benefits from this new regime. Also Roose keeps them close because they are his most reliable allies. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Witholding may be too harsh to describe what somebody who sent only the bare minimum of her workers off to battle.  Who determines what is an adequate number?  What can be reasonably expected from Ser Eustace will be different from what would be reasonable for a powerful man like Walder Frey.

Barbrey Dustin was understandably reluctant, given how much the Starks' war games have costed her in the past.  The Starks dragged the kingdom into war not too long ago because Rickard Stark did something that a more prudent man would not have.  Defy his king.  Southron Ambitions as she described it.  That last one destroyed her life.  it's easy to see why she would send only enough to avoid trouble from the Starks.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, The Young Maester said:

It’s clear they dislike Ramsey.

It is clear that Lady Dustin dislikes Ramsay, her brothers and father it is not confirmed either way. Given he is a psychopath I'd hope they had severe reservations about him, but to say it is clear is simply not true.

But this conversation is about Roose, not Ramsay or even House Bolton. Roose!

32 minutes ago, The Young Maester said:

 

After domeric died, roose was quick to bring Ramsey into the dreadfort (basically making him his heir in all but name). I doubt they would’ve liked it when a bastard took their nephew/grandsons place.

This is conjecture. He was not made Roose’s heir, that was a recent development which is only confirmed half way though the events of ADWD.

But again, we are talking about Roose, not his bastard son. It is possible for a Westerland lord to dislike Tyrion while still being an ally of Tywin and vice versa.

32 minutes ago, The Young Maester said:

Bringing Ramsey could’ve made roose lose favour with the ryswells. Don’t think they hated roose but more like they kept themselves neutral towards him.

There is no evidence of that, and given how quickly they joined Ramsay in the North and that they are with Roose right now does not suggest neutrality.

32 minutes ago, The Young Maester said:

They obviously like roose more than Ned which is why they are so quick to support roose. Plus they will receive the most benefits from this new regime. Also Roose keeps them close because they are his most reliable allies. 

Does this not agree with me? How can you write this and still have an issue with anything I have said?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

It is clear that Lady Dustin dislikes Ramsay, her brothers and father it is not confirmed either way. Given he is a psychopath I'd hope they had severe reservations about him, but to say it is clear is simply not true.

But this conversation is about Roose, not Ramsay or even House Bolton. Roose!

This is conjecture. He was not made Roose’s heir, that was a recent development which is only confirmed half way though the events of ADWD.

But again, we are talking about Roose, not his bastard son. It is possible for a Westerland lord to dislike Tyrion while still being an ally of Tywin and vice versa.

There is no evidence of that, and given how quickly they joined Ramsay in the North and that they are with Roose right now does not suggest neutrality.

Does this not agree with me? How can you write this and still have an issue with anything I have said?

True enough, lady Dustin dislikes him. Obviously we have no proof that the rest of the ryswells do. But they at least know what Ramsey is capable of. And if lady Dustin brought her suspicions to them, they’ll likely believe it. 

But I’ll concede, that you are right on the ryswells getting along with roose. Obviously to me the only issue being Ramsey. We know no one wants him as heir to the north, but it shouldn’t change their opinion of roose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...