What was Cat thinking when she took Tyrion?

[Alyn Oakenfist]

I just don't get it. What was her endgame? Put Tyrion on trial? She must have known there was no proof besides what her beloved Petyr was saying. Kill him? Besides the retribution that would have brought down, she could have done that easily, but she didn't. Keep him a captive? What for. There was no war, not until she started it. So what was her ideal finale?

[Lollygag]

LF told her what she wanted to hear. He gave her an obvious target to blame and she needed that.

It was all emotion. Cat was despondent and not even functional when she was grieving Bran. When he was attacked, she had a target for revenge and she was instantly better. It's how she copes with her emotions and she's not the only one. It's pretty common, actually even in rl. Folks look for enemies as a way to avoid more uncomfortable or painful things.

When Cat started to give up on revenge for Ned while realizing Tyrion was innocent and just wanted Arya and Sansa back, she started to slip back into despondency again to the point Robb had to make plans to send her away. Stoneheart, who has bloody gouges under her eyes as tear stains, deals with her pain and grief through revenge. Pretty typical for a Westerosi really.

[Bronn Urgandy]

Been a long time since I read it but I guess I can understand her reasoning, if not that it was entirely reasonable (I would start breaking skulls if that was my kid though so I can’t call her unreasonable). She thinks she has no reason not to trust Littlefinger who must by now be over his “childish infatuation” with her, she sees her sons attempted murderer, laughing at and mocking her in her eyes, she knows that if he leaves that Inn he’ll escape justice for the rest of his life and may even attempt another assassination. Her Mothering instincts took over. I personally would have called my men to arms and butchered him and his companions on the spot and blamed it on bandits, paid the entire inn off to keep their mouths shut

[The Young Maester]

Her emotions clouded her judgment. 
From what I’ve seen, cat is actually a very smart women. But whenever she is on an emotional state, she makes dumb things like freeing Jamie, and capturing Tyrion. 
And when she saw Tyrion, all the emotions returned. Mainly because she remembered who attempted to kill her son. 

I think Cat captured him out of impulse. And didn’t bother to think what to do with him, and what the consequences of her actions would be. 

[Alyn Oakenfist]

7 minutes ago, The Young Maester said:

I think Cat captured him out of impulse. And didn’t bother to think what to do with him, and what the consequences of her actions would be. 

But then how come the pretty smart way in which she captured him and made sure nobody was following?

[Lollygag]

11 minutes ago, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

She wasn’t thinking. She’s the dumbest wench in the entire story

That's not how the books are being written.

[Moiraine Sedai]

She was thinking of Bran.  He was to get a trial and then probably brought to Robert?

Cat isn't dumb but she was thinking like a mother instead of a lady who was responsible for the well-being of many.  It was a very poor decision. 

[The Young Maester]

2 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

But then how come the pretty smart way in which she captured him and made sure nobody was following?

Yeah that’s what confuses me. She played a smart move whilst committing herself to a stupid action. Cat seems like the sort of person that will think of the consequences of ones action.

[The hairy bear]

2 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I just don't get it. What was her endgame?

It should be reminded that Catelyn first plan was to avoid beeing seen by Tyrion. She wanted Tyrion to leave the inn and go his way. But once Tyrion had recognized her, she couldn't let him go. Otherwise, Tyrion would have returned to King's Landing with the information that Cat had secretly been in King's Landing.

This would convince the Lannisters that the Starks were plotting (probably they'd think that Bran had woken up and had explained what he saw), and would act against Eddard.

2 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Put Tyrion on trial? She must have known there was no proof besides what her beloved Petyr was saying.

If Baelish had been telling the truth, all the court would know that the knife belonged to Tyrion. Given that Tyrion had not denounced that he had been stolen the knife, it is a compelling evidence against him.

Catelyn surely also hoped that Lysa had some additional evidence implying the Lannisters in his husband's murder, given the letter that she had sent her.

2 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

 There was no war, not until she started it.

The reaction of the Lannisters to Tyrio's arrest was completely unnwarranted and disproportionate. As daughter of Lord Tully, Catelyn had a certain legal basis for seizing a suspect located in the Riverlands and bring him to trial. There was absolutely no justifications for Tywin's sending his dogs to rape and murder in the Riverlands, nor for Jaime treasonously attacking Eddard and murdering his men. Catelyn did not start a war. The Lannisters did.

In any case, by that point Stannis was recruiting forces at Dragonstone, Renly was plotting to remove the Lannisters from court, and Eddard was close to discovering the secret behinf Cersei's kids. War had been innevitable for many years, and by then it was imminent regardless of what Cat's actions.

 

2 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So what was her ideal finale?

Robert takes the matter into his own hands and presides Tyrion's trial. He can't explain how the assassin got his knife. Lysa brings in proof that he was also behind Jon Arryn's poisoning. More evidences are discovered showing his treasonous activities. Tyrion no longer can deny it, and confesses his crimes in exchange for being allowed to take the black.

[CamiloRP]

1 hour ago, The hairy bear said:

It should be reminded that Catelyn first plan was to avoid beeing seen by Tyrion. She wanted Tyrion to leave the inn and go his way. But once Tyrion had recognized her, she couldn't let him go. Otherwise, Tyrion would have returned to King's Landing with the information that Cat had secretly been in King's Landing.

This would convince the Lannisters that the Starks were plotting (probably they'd think that Bran had woken up and had explained what he saw), and would act against Eddard.

If Baelish had been telling the truth, all the court would know that the knife belonged to Tyrion. Given that Tyrion had not denounced that he had been stolen the knife, it is a compelling evidence against him.

Catelyn surely also hoped that Lysa had some additional evidence implying the Lannisters in his husband's murder, given the letter that she had sent her.

The reaction of the Lannisters to Tyrio's arrest was completely unnwarranted and disproportionate. As daughter of Lord Tully, Catelyn had a certain legal basis for seizing a suspect located in the Riverlands and bring him to trial. There was absolutely no justifications for Tywin's sending his dogs to rape and murder in the Riverlands, nor for Jaime treasonously attacking Eddard and murdering his men. Catelyn did not start a war. The Lannisters did.

In any case, by that point Stannis was recruiting forces at Dragonstone, Renly was plotting to remove the Lannisters from court, and Eddard was close to discovering the secret behinf Cersei's kids. War had been innevitable for many years, and by then it was imminent regardless of what Cat's actions.

 

Robert takes the matter into his own hands and presides Tyrion's trial. He can't explain how the assassin got his knife. Lysa brings in proof that he was also behind Jon Arryn's poisoning. More evidences are discovered showing his treasonous activities. Tyrion no longer can deny it, and confesses his crimes in exchange for being allowed to take the black.

I came in here to write a discount version of this, thanks for saving me the work and doing a much better job of it <3

[TheLastWolf]

7 hours ago, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

She wasn’t thinking. She’s the dumbest wench in the entire story

Ever heard of someone named Cersei Lannister?

[Alyn Oakenfist]

7 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

The reaction of the Lannisters to Tyrio's arrest was completely unnwarranted and disproportionate. As daughter of Lord Tully, Catelyn had a certain legal basis for seizing a suspect located in the Riverlands and bring him to trial. There was absolutely no justifications for Tywin's sending his dogs to rape and murder in the Riverlands, nor for Jaime treasonously attacking Eddard and murdering his men. Catelyn did not start a war. The Lannisters did.

I'm not saying Tywin was in any way right or justified, but anyone with a shred of brain and knowledge of Tywin Lannister would know that war is exactly what you get when you kidnapp his son.

7 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

11 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So what was her ideal finale?

Robert takes the matter into his own hands and presides Tyrion's trial. He can't explain how the assassin got his knife. Lysa brings in proof that he was also behind Jon Arryn's poisoning. More evidences are discovered showing his treasonous activities. Tyrion no longer can deny it, and confesses his crimes in exchange for being allowed to take the black.

Not a great plan

[SeanF]

2 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I'm not saying Tywin was in any way right or justified, but anyone with a shred of brain and knowledge of Tywin Lannister would know that war is exactly what you get when you kidnapp his son.

Not a great plan

Catelyn was between a rock and a hard place.  She did not want Tyrion to see her.  Once she did, she had a choice.  Seize him, and run the attendant risks.  Let him continue to Kings Landing, and reveal to his family that he met Catelyn Stark riding away from the capital.  That would alert them to the fact that she had met Ned in the capital.  

Her plan was a good one, given that she had to formulate it in seconds.  Arrest Tyrion, throw his pursuers off the scent, and take him to the Eyrie, where he can be questioned.  She has no reason to believe that Littlefinger is lying to her (how many of us would assume we were being lied to if we were summoned to a meeting with two high-ranking cabinet ministers, who advised us that a particular individual had been behind the murder attempt on our child?)

Her plan failed because (a) LF was lying to her (b) she was unaware that her sister's mental health had deteriorated considerably in the five years since she had met her.

[Springwatch]

9 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

t should be reminded that Catelyn first plan was to avoid beeing seen by Tyrion. She wanted Tyrion to leave the inn and go his way. But once Tyrion had recognized her, she couldn't let him go. Otherwise, Tyrion would have returned to King's Landing with the information that Cat had secretly been in King's Landing.

An arrow through her back on the Kingsroad would be a much simpler solution for Tyrion. (This is Tyrion-if-he-was-a-murderer we're talking about.)

[Lord Lannister]

Thinking didn't enter into the calculation. She was acting purely on emotion. Her first instinct was to hide out of fear. Once discovered her instinct was to lash out against the person Littlefinger said harmed her son. She didn't bother to consider the validity of the accusations or any long term plan to gain advantage with Tyrion as a hostage. 

[Loose Bolt]

Kidnapping member of royal family is serious crime. Who is warden of Riverlands? So just in theory as a Warden of the West Tywin might even had right to send people hunting down those "criminals". After all some traitors had just captured queen's brother without direct order from king. 

[The Young Maester]

19 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

Kidnapping member of royal family is serious crime. Who is warden of Riverlands? So just in theory as a Warden of the West Tywin might even had right to send people hunting down those "criminals". After all some traitors had just captured queen's brother without direct order from king. 

Tyrion isnt part of the royal family as he neither posses royal blood or bares the Baratheon name.

[Loose Bolt]

18 minutes ago, The Young Maester said:

Tyrion isnt part of the royal family as he neither posses royal blood or bares the Baratheon name.

He is maternal uncle of crown prince => next king, queen's brother and brother in law of ruling king. So there are at least some connections.

[The Young Maester]

6 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

He is maternal uncle of crown prince => next king, queen's brother and brother in law of ruling king. So there are at least some connections.

True enough. Not part of the royal family but still connected enough to have a big “fuck off” sign.

[Angel Eyes]

21 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

Kidnapping member of royal family is serious crime. Who is warden of Riverlands? So just in theory as a Warden of the West Tywin might even had right to send people hunting down those "criminals". After all some traitors had just captured queen's brother without direct order from king. 

There isn't really a Warden per se; the highest authority might be Hoster Tully as Lord Paramount, but he's bedridden.