Is Dany going to burn Lys, Myr and Tyrosh?

[kissdbyfire]

7 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

Saying Jon has caused more damage at the Wall than the Nights King is ridiculous.

Yes, it is ridiculous, preposterous, and, sadly, to be expected where a few readers are concerned. Yawn. 

[Alyn Oakenfist]

4 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

12 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

Saying Jon has caused more damage at the Wall than the Nights King is ridiculous.

Yes, it is ridiculous, preposterous, and, sadly, to be expected where a few readers are concerned. Yawn. 

Eh could be worse. They could claim that Roose is a good guy

[SeanF]

19 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

I seem to remember the Pink Letter threatening the Nights Watch itself. 

Yup. That's an explicit threat to the Nights Watch. There is no ambiguity there. 

Since Jon also made clear that only wildlings unnafilliated with the Nights Watch would be accompanying him so his brothers wouldn't break any oaths, I'm unclear on why you believe he got the Nights Watch involved with anything. 

Saying Jon has caused more damage at the Wall than the Nights King is ridiculous.

Jon can hardly fight the Others with an enemy at Winterfell.

[CamiloRP]

9 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Eh could be worse. They could claim that Roose is a good guy

just wait a little

[Jaak]

I suspect Daenerys cannot if she wanted to.

If burning Tyrosh were that easy, why didn´t Daemon? His coalition around 110 had the motive and 4 dragons - Caraxes, Meleys, Seasmoke and Vhagar. Yes, Rhaenys and Laena were female and Laenor a boy, but Rhaenys was expressly inclined to be bold and would have wanted to join her father in war, Laena should have been safer than other on the biggest dragon...

[Pontius Pilate]

Dany has no reason to do so.  Burning the slaver cities that far away from Meereen is not necessary.  The slaves can do this for themselves if their masters refuse to give them freedom.  I also don't think the burning of whole cities is needed but the statues honoring the slave masters and the symbols of their culture need to be taken down.  

[BlackLightning]

I don't know about Tyrosh or Myr but Lys is a different beast. Not only does Lys produces its own slaves, Lys is rich with its own army. And I believe the free, pro-slavery population of Lys outnumbers the enslaved population.

I do fully expect for there to be a POV chapter in Lys at some point. It's an important spot: the Hightower family and all of Oldtown is seeking aid from the Lyseni against the Ironborn invaders via Lynesse Hightower...who happens to be Ser Jorah's ex-wife. And didn't the Targaryens have close ties with the Lyseni?

And isn't Varys from Lys? GRRM said we'd be finding out the truth about Varys in A Dream of Spring. An excursion to Lys in The Winds of Winter can lay the groundwork for that big reveal.

Lys is a major convergence point.

[Lord Varys]

On 11/4/2020 at 10:11 PM, Jaak said:

I suspect Daenerys cannot if she wanted to.

If burning Tyrosh were that easy, why didn´t Daemon? His coalition around 110 had the motive and 4 dragons - Caraxes, Meleys, Seasmoke and Vhagar. Yes, Rhaenys and Laena were female and Laenor a boy, but Rhaenys was expressly inclined to be bold and would have wanted to join her father in war, Laena should have been safer than other on the biggest dragon...

Daemon had only one dragon - his own. Rhaenys, Laenor, and Laena never took part in his war. We don't know why, of course, but we cannot assume that Corlys had the power to command them to support his war efforts on the Stepstones. Especially not early during the war when his children were still pretty young.

Rhaenys not participating might be a sign that she didn't give a damn about the Stepstones war.

7 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

I don't know about Tyrosh or Myr but Lys is a different beast. Not only does Lys produces its own slaves, Lys is rich with its own army. And I believe the free, pro-slavery population of Lys outnumbers the enslaved population.

The free people/slaves ratio in the Three Daughters is 1:3. In Volantis it is 1:5. The slaves therefore vastly outnumber their masters and other free people.

The difference between the Three Daughters and Volantis is that the Three Daughters (and Lys especially, since we learned a lot about the political system of that city in FaB) do not have a standing army and navy made up of slave soldiers (whereas the Volantene military is made up of slave soldiers). Instead, they have a citizen army and navy in addition to sellswords and sellsails who are, for the most part, also people from those cities and the lands they control.

That could indicate that a slave revolt in the Three Daughters is not going to be successful because so far the rulers of those cities control access to weapons and - especially relevant in the case of Tyrosh and Lys which are on islands - the fleets.

I'd expect that the rulers of the Three Daughters band together in another alliance to stop Daenerys after things get out of hand in Volantis. They might even ally with Euron in this.

7 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

Lys is a major convergence point.

Lys is crucial/interesting not just because Lynesse Hightower is there, Varys is from there, and the secret 'Aegon conference' involving Varys, Illyrio, Myles Toyne, and Jon Connington also took place there, but especially because Edric Storm and his buddies are hiding there right now.

The part of Dany's forces who travel west by ship (and not overland to Myr or Pentos to take ship for Westeros there) are very likely to make halt at Lys to take in water and provisions even if they were not intending to free the slaves there (which is pretty unlikely, all things considered). Chances are pretty high that Edric returns to Westeros in Dany's tow, who might legitimize him to name him Lord of Storm's End. That way she could win considerable support from the old Baratheon supporters, not only in the Stormlands.

[BlackLightning]

10 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

The free people/slaves ratio in the Three Daughters is 1:3. In Volantis it is 1:5. The slaves therefore vastly outnumber their masters and other free people.

A freeman/slave ratio of 1:3 is much better than 1:5.

Especially since, as you say, the freeborn Lyseni have an army of free citizens and they control and house all the weapons. Basically, the situation in Lys (and perhaps, Tyrosh and Myr) is probably more akin to the American South where slave rebellions were infrequent and largely unsuccessful; not because they were outnumbered (in many places, enslaved African-Americans outnumbered free white Americans) but because the slavers had much more control over all resources. Slaver's Bay and Volantis seems to be constructed in the same fashion as the slave societies of the Caribbean and South America where the slaves had both the numbers and the resources. The Ghischari and the Volantenes -- stand-ins for the Spanish, the Portuguese and the French -- also seem to be a lot more arrogant and sloppy (or, to be generous, more laidback, permissive and confident) than the Lyseni, the Norvosi, the Tyroshi and the Myrish who might very well be stand-ins for the British, the Belgians and the Americans.

18 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I'd expect that the rulers of the Three Daughters band together in another alliance to stop Daenerys after things get out of hand in Volantis. They might even ally with Euron in this.

While I don't doubt that they would try to ally with Euron (it'd be interesting given what the Hightower family is trying to accomplish), I don't think they will be able to. There's no time. I expect Euron to: 1) not care and 2) be preoccupied and more concerned with Oldtown and the Citadel. Plus, I expect Daenerys' forces will be much, much closer to them by that point than Euron will be. So, even if Euron wanted to, he couldn't get there in time. Especially not without having to endure the protestations and possible schemes of his lords bannermen.

That said, I do think that the Three Daughters might band together which would mean that a huge battle would erupt. I doubt it would be as lengthy as the ones at Meereen, Winterfell and Oldtown but...yep. Winds is going to be great!

Ultimately they'll lose.

Here is my belief though. If any of the Free Cities are to be burned by Daenerys (accidentally or purposefully), I believe it will be Norvos. There are at least, two people in Norvos, that Arianne knows and loves dearly, two people that might also try to do something stupid out of their false belief that Daenerys killed Quentyn Martell.

28 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Lys is crucial/interesting not just because Lynesse Hightower is there, Varys is from there, and the secret 'Aegon conference' involving Varys, Illyrio, Myles Toyne, and Jon Connington also took place there, but especially because Edric Storm and his buddies are hiding there right now.

Ah yes. I forgot about Edric Storm but yep. All the more reason why Lys has to be a major stopping point. 

Salladhor Saan is also from there. If he runs afoul of Daenerys and her allies and he dies, then...that gives Davos a reason to dislike and/or fear Dany.

I wouldn't be surprised if Lys and Pentos (or even Braavos) are the stopping points for the branches of Team Daenerys in The Winds of Winter and that Dany doesn't even set foot in Westeros until her second POV chapter in A Dream of Spring.

[Lord Varys]

9 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

A freeman/slave ratio of 1:3 is much better than 1:5.

Sure, it is better, but it is still technically enough for a successful slave revolt. I expect the rulers of the cities to make a preemptive strike, i.e. round up and torture/execute thousands and thousands of slaves to terrorize the survivors into submission.

And of course they might lose Myr early on since Dany will have the means to send khalasars to all the slaver cities on the mainland. But the bulk of the fleet of the Myrmen - and all their wealth and soldiers - might be evacuated to the Stepstones.

9 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

Especially since, as you say, the freeborn Lyseni have an army of free citizens and they control and house all the weapons. Basically, the situation in Lys (and perhaps, Tyrosh and Myr) is probably more akin to the American South where slave rebellions were infrequent and largely unsuccessful; not because they were outnumbered (in many places, enslaved African-Americans outnumbered free white Americans) but because the slavers had much more control over all resources. Slaver's Bay and Volantis seems to be constructed in the same fashion as the slave societies of the Caribbean and South America where the slaves had both the numbers and the resources. The Ghischari and the Volantenes -- stand-ins for the Spanish, the Portuguese and the French -- also seem to be a lot more arrogant and sloppy (or, to be generous, more laidback, permissive and confident) than the Lyseni, the Norvosi, the Tyroshi and the Myrish who might very well be stand-ins for the British, the Belgians and the Americans.

In Volantis we have a former slave as a very influential leader in the city in the Widow of the Waterfront as well as the leader of the main slave religion proclaiming Daenerys as their savior. This is more than enough to give them means and motivation for a successful uprising, especially since the some/all the new triarchs might accompany the army to Slaver's Bay leaving the Volantene regime at home in a more vulnerable position.

9 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

While I don't doubt that they would try to ally with Euron (it'd be interesting given what the Hightower family is trying to accomplish), I don't think they will be able to. There's no time. I expect Euron to: 1) not care and 2) be preoccupied and more concerned with Oldtown and the Citadel. Plus, I expect Daenerys' forces will be much, much closer to them by that point than Euron will be. So, even if Euron wanted to, he couldn't get there in time. Especially not without having to endure the protestations and possible schemes of his lords bannermen.

Euron has no interests in Oldtown that we know of. He went to the Reach not because he wants to conquer territory but because he wanted to go to Daenerys with his entire armada. That didn't work, but he still wants the Iron Throne, not the Hightower. Meaning he should move sooner rather than later east to eventually get to the Narrow Sea ... and to get there he will have to get through the Stepstones.

We will get Euron's victory over the Redwynes early in TWoW and that is going to establish his dominant position in the southern Reach. The Hightowers won't resist him after that and risk to lose their precious city and all their wealth ... nor the Oldtowners themselves. They did yield to the Ironborn in the past, they can do so again, especially if Euron shows them his smiling eye.

Also keep in mind that Aegon is the big wild card right now. His very existence and possible success in taking the Iron Throne and secure the support of all the Targaryen loyalists and other great houses is the greatest danger to Euron's plans with Daenerys - after all, his plan was to use Dany's legitimacy to seize the throne as her husband and king consort. Euron is going to be very angry about that ... and if Arianne sides with Aegon his next target might be Dorne and the Martells. Sunspear and the Water Gardens are very close to the sea. If Euron were to move east to punish the Martells he might be at exactly the right point to offer his help to the Three Daughters considering the size of his fleet and the experience of his Ironborn in naval warfare. He is also the main suspect, I imagine, for taking over and unite the pirates and such in the Stepstones. Aurane Waters, Salladhor Saan and whoever else there is right now won't dare nor be able to resist Euron's armada once it moves to their waters.

Originally, I imagine, such an alliance could be his means to crush Aegon at KL ... but depending when exactly he learns that Dany is alive and the god-empress of the Dothraki now he might very well become her main obstacle on her way to Westeros. Because the only way to weaken Daenerys and prevent her immediate and utter victory in Westeros, in my opinion, is if she suffers considerable/major losses on her way to Westeros due to a gigantic sea battle and/or a massive loss of ships due to storms and such.

9 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

That said, I do think that the Three Daughters might band together which would mean that a huge battle would erupt. I doubt it would be as lengthy as the ones at Meereen, Winterfell and Oldtown but...yep. Winds is going to be great!

I don't think such a battle would take place in the next book. Daenerys might not even be on her way to Westeros in TWoW. But even if she was, she would not get as far as Lys/the Stepstones with the bulk of her armada.

You can't treat the story as if the author can reach certain crucial points in a novel. The Red Wedding was support to be the finale in book 1, not something that happened in the middle of book 3. And neither Dany's story with the Dothraki nor the Slaver's Bay plot can be rushed in light of all the buildup for that in ADwD.

9 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

Here is my belief though. If any of the Free Cities are to be burned by Daenerys (accidentally or purposefully), I believe it will be Norvos. There are at least, two people in Norvos, that Arianne knows and loves dearly, two people that might also try to do something stupid out of their false belief that Daenerys killed Quentyn Martell.

I'd expect that the Dothraki will raze all the slaver Free Cities on the mainland where there are no slave revolts. Volantis should not suffer a sack, but Qohor, Norvos, Myr, and Pentos most likely will suffer such a thing.

9 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

Salladhor Saan is also from there. If he runs afoul of Daenerys and her allies and he dies, then...that gives Davos a reason to dislike and/or fear Dany.

Well, Salla pretty much abandoned Stannis and Davos, so I don't think they are all that great friends at this point. Salla should continue as a pirate, I'd assume - if he was in high standing in Lys he would have never sided with Stannis in the first place - but if he ends up joining his city and/or Euron then he might definitely oppose Dany's armada when she is coming.

[Jaak]

13 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Daemon had only one dragon - his own. Rhaenys, Laenor, and Laena never took part in his war. We don't know why, of course, but we cannot assume that Corlys had the power to command them to support his war efforts on the Stepstones. Especially not early during the war when his children were still pretty young.

Rhaenys not participating might be a sign that she didn't give a damn about the Stepstones war.

And why?

She could have gained a lot. She was the Queen Who Should Have Been. She had the opportunity to make herself a real Queen of the East, equal to and independent from her (dragonless!) cousin Viserys. While Daemon would have been the only adult man dragorider of her 4, 3 of the 4 being Rhaenys and her children, with the biggest dragon of Laena, would have made Daemon the junior partner in her realm. And Three Sisters not being feudal like Westeros could have meant relatively larger cash revenues for Rhaenys than Viserys, and hired armies rather than feudal contingents.

A possible reason she did not care is that she did not expect to win, not even with her 4 dragons. If the matter is that Three Sisters knew how to protect themselves against dragons, the way Westeros did not, and Rhaenys knew Three Sisters were protected... then Three Sisters are also protected from Daenerys´ 3 young dragons (no Vhagar for her!).

[Rose of Red Lake]

It's a disturbing thought that lives rest on whether she decides to wipe them out or not.  Maybe one person has too much power.

 

[Lord Varys]

9 hours ago, Jaak said:

And why?

She could have gained a lot. She was the Queen Who Should Have Been. She had the opportunity to make herself a real Queen of the East, equal to and independent from her (dragonless!) cousin Viserys. While Daemon would have been the only adult man dragorider of her 4, 3 of the 4 being Rhaenys and her children, with the biggest dragon of Laena, would have made Daemon the junior partner in her realm. And Three Sisters not being feudal like Westeros could have meant relatively larger cash revenues for Rhaenys than Viserys, and hired armies rather than feudal contingents.

A possible reason she did not care is that she did not expect to win, not even with her 4 dragons. If the matter is that Three Sisters knew how to protect themselves against dragons, the way Westeros did not, and Rhaenys knew Three Sisters were protected... then Three Sisters are also protected from Daenerys´ 3 young dragons (no Vhagar for her!).

We have no idea. Could be that she, personally, didn't give a damn or that Corlys didn't care enough about the campaign to involve his family in the fighting and risk the lives of them and their dragons. Again, Laena and Laenor weren't exactly all that old when the fighting started.

And it seems that Corlys wasn't all that involved in the later fighting on the Stepstones, anyway. He financed and his navy helped to conquer some islands during the original campaign, but we don't hear much about him involving himself when the Three Daughters struck back nor when Daemon returned to 'his kingdom' after his second falling-out with Viserys I.

[BlackLightning]

23 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

And of course they might lose Myr early on since Dany will have the means to send khalasars to all the slaver cities on the mainland. But the bulk of the fleet of the Myrmen - and all their wealth and soldiers - might be evacuated to the Stepstones.

Or Westeros.

I expect there to be a mass influx of Essosi nobility fleeing Daenerys Stormborn's revolution and seeking asylum in southern Westeros. The Dornish (Arianne and Doran in particular) have close ties with the lords and magisters of the Free Cities and they will be the family with the greatest amount of power once the Tyrell-Lannister power bloc has completely disintegrated. Which gives the people of Westeros - namely the Dornishmen - to hate Daenerys.

Euron has no interests in Oldtown

that we know of.

Exactly. That we know of. But I suspect that he does.

23 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

He went to the Reach not because he wants to conquer territory but because he wanted to go to Daenerys with his entire armada. That didn't work, but he still wants the Iron Throne, not the Hightower.

Who says that he is after the Hightower?

Methinks that he is after the Citadel and all the things that are inside. This is the same man who braved Valyria for the dragonbinder horn and a suit of armor made of Valyrian steel and god knows what else. He's also reported to have gone to Asshai. He drinks the blue wine of the Qartheen warlocks as if it were mulled wine.

23 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Also keep in mind that Aegon is the big wild card right now. His very existence and possible success in taking the Iron Throne and secure the support of all the Targaryen loyalists and other great houses is the greatest danger to Euron's plans with Daenerys - after all, his plan was to use Dany's legitimacy to seize the throne as her husband and king consort. Euron is going to be very angry about that ... and if Arianne sides with Aegon his next target might be Dorne and the Martells. Sunspear and the Water Gardens are very close to the sea. If Euron were to move east to punish the Martells he might be at exactly the right point to offer his help to the Three Daughters considering the size of his fleet and the experience of his Ironborn in naval warfare. He is also the main suspect, I imagine, for taking over and unite the pirates and such in the Stepstones. Aurane Waters, Salladhor Saan and whoever else there is right now won't dare nor be able to resist Euron's armada once it moves to their waters.

I don't disagree by any stretch of the imagination.

However, I do think that Euron is going to get held up in Oldtown. I don't think that the destruction of the Redwyne fleet automatically means Euron will be able to waltz into Oldtown and take complete control of the city in a day or two.

I expect that's why we have both an Aeron POV and a Samwell POV placed in Oldtown. I don't think Aeron will live to see the aftermath of the Battle of the Redwyne Straits...which is where Sam comes in.

23 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I don't think such a battle would take place in the next book. Daenerys might not even be on her way to Westeros in TWoW. But even if she was, she would not get as far as Lys/the Stepstones with the bulk of her armada.

That's not necessarily true. There are four POVs attached to the Daenerys storyline. There's Dany's own POV, there's Selmy, there's Tyrion and there's Victarion. The four of them can be literally working towards the same goal but be in different locations. With a dragon that is growing bigger and stronger with every passing day, Daenerys can travel the fastest out of any character. Victarion is more suited to be the one to pay the Three Daughters (mainly Lys) a visit. Victarion will likely be in charge of her armada.

You can't treat the story as if the author can reach certain crucial points in a novel. The Red Wedding was support to be the finale in book 1, not something that happened in the middle of book 3. And neither Dany's story with the Dothraki nor the Slaver's Bay plot can be rushed in light of all the buildup for that in ADwD.

Who says that her story with the Dothraki and Slaver's Bay can be rushed.

If you give Dany 11-13 chapters in Winds, she can deal with the Dothraki in the first 5-6 chapters, return to Meereen for the big finale/pow-wow in chapter 7 and conquer Essos in the last 6 chapters.

With Tyrion, Barristan and Victarion as POVs, most of the battle of Meereen would be shown from their eyes with Daenerys showing up after the battle or at the very end.

[Universal Sword Donor]

On 10/26/2020 at 9:31 AM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

And really Tyrion does have a lot of child like attributes and innocence at the beginning

Wut? The only thing that I can recall fitting that description would be his idolization of Jaime but that's it.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

9 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

On 10/26/2020 at 3:31 PM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

And really Tyrion does have a lot of child like attributes and innocence at the beginning

Wut? The only thing that I can recall fitting that description would be his idolization of Jaime but that's it.

Well there are couple more, with him going to the Wall, being fascinated by dragons, and a lot of his interactions with Shae. It's all behind a very jaded exterior, but there is still a small child there behind it

[Lord Varys]

22 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

Or Westeros.

I expect there to be a mass influx of Essosi nobility fleeing Daenerys Stormborn's revolution and seeking asylum in southern Westeros. The Dornish (Arianne and Doran in particular) have close ties with the lords and magisters of the Free Cities and they will be the family with the greatest amount of power once the Tyrell-Lannister power bloc has completely disintegrated. Which gives the people of Westeros - namely the Dornishmen - to hate Daenerys.

That could happen to a point, but there don't seem to be that close ties between Essos and Westeros in our days, with no dignitaries from any Free City showing up for any of the royal weddings we saw so far ... or the funerals. Not even Pentoshi magisters.

Also, I'd expect Sunspear to be a smoking ruin and House Martell to be down to Princess Arianne and some of her bastard cousins by the time things get dire in the Free Cities ... because Euron will attack the Martells in the wake of their Aegon alliance, resultion possibly in the deaths of both Doran and Trystane Martell.

22 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

Exactly. That we know of. But I suspect that he does.

But we do know Euron's plans. He talked the over with dead brother walking, Aeron Greyjoy, in the Forsaken. If he had plans for Oldtown he would have said so in those chapters. Instead it became very clear that he has designs on the big price, the Iron Throne, and that he plans to crush the Redwynes. But there is no indication he intends to take Oldtown by force or that he wants anything from there.

Doesn't mean he won't get the allegiance of the city, though. If Euron does indeed crush the Redwynes with minimal casualties on his part - and the Hightower ships witness his victory - then they will bend the knee. Because they won't have any other choice to save their wealth. These are pragmatic folks, and their only chance to get rid of the Ironborn in their waters are the Redwynes. If they fail, they will have to come to terms with Euron since they have no means left to resist him.

22 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

Methinks that he is after the Citadel and all the things that are inside. This is the same man who braved Valyria for the dragonbinder horn and a suit of armor made of Valyrian steel and god knows what else. He's also reported to have gone to Asshai. He drinks the blue wine of the Qartheen warlocks as if it were mulled wine.

It is indicated that Euron never went to Valyria. What he has he got from Pyat Pree and his fellows who, one assumes, may have gotten that from Valyrian dragonlords before the Doom took Valyria. During an old war between the Qartheen and the Valyrians, say, or by means of a dragonlord or sorcerer prince of Valyria leaving the Freehold and taken his stuff with him to Qarth where he could have joined the Undying.

22 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

However, I do think that Euron is going to get held up in Oldtown. I don't think that the destruction of the Redwyne fleet automatically means Euron will be able to waltz into Oldtown and take complete control of the city in a day or two.

Not by means of conquest, but by means of offering favorable terms. But I'm not sure whether Euron will care to go to Oldtown in person. Instead, one would imagine that he chooses the Arbor as his new royal seat considering nobody will be able to threaten him on the island.

Euron doesn't have the numbers to actually conquer and hold Oldtown. Hundreds of thousands of people live in the city.

22 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

I expect that's why we have both an Aeron POV and a Samwell POV placed in Oldtown. I don't think Aeron will live to see the aftermath of the Battle of the Redwyne Straits...which is where Sam comes in.

Oh, there are hints how Aeron will survive. Leather straps were used to bind him to the prow, and leather wides when it gets wet - which already happened at the end of the chapter. Chances are very good that Aeron will wiggle free in the next chapter before they can sacrifice him ... and then he will entrust himself a second time to the embrace of his god, like he did back at Fair Isle. The Drowned God saved him once, I'd not be surprised if he saved him twice.

He could be saved by one of the surviving Hightower ships or simply be washed ashore to be captured by some of Lord Leyton's men to eventually become one of our POVs at the Hightower itself (we would expect Sam to visit with Lord Leyton, too, Lady Rhea Florent Hightower is Sam's maternal aunt, so they are not unlikely to receive him.

But I think Aeron's survival is a necessity right now to inform other crucial characters about Euron's true nature as well as his ambitions. So far only Euron's inner circle knows about those, and that has to change if people are supposed to oppose him before it is too late for everybody.

22 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

That's not necessarily true. There are four POVs attached to the Daenerys storyline. There's Dany's own POV, there's Selmy, there's Tyrion and there's Victarion. The four of them can be literally working towards the same goal but be in different locations. With a dragon that is growing bigger and stronger with every passing day, Daenerys can travel the fastest out of any character. Victarion is more suited to be the one to pay the Three Daughters (mainly Lys) a visit. Victarion will likely be in charge of her armada.

Daenerys first has to properly control Drogon ... and she has to win over the Dothraki. That alone should take up most of her chapters in TWoW.

22 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

If you give Dany 11-13 chapters in Winds, she can deal with the Dothraki in the first 5-6 chapters, return to Meereen for the big finale/pow-wow in chapter 7 and conquer Essos in the last 6 chapters.

Dany is not likely to have that many chapters in the next book simply because TWoW will include all POVs again ... and there is a massive amount of chapters necessary simply to catch up with dangling plot lines (especially Sam's and Sansa's stories) as well as continue the battle plots from ADwD. I'd expect Daenerys to have at best 5-7 chapters if she is one of the most prominent POVs in the book. If that role fell to other POVs she might have even less.

And I don't think Dany will return with an army to Slaver's Bay once she has taken over the Dothraki. She could fly in with her dragon - or more likely: the new dragonriders could search out her in Vaes Dothrak - but I don't think Dothraki forces will be necessary to deal with the situation in Slaver's Bay.

22 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

With Tyrion, Barristan and Victarion as POVs, most of the battle of Meereen would be shown from their eyes with Daenerys showing up after the battle or at the very end.

The time line would not even remotely allow for that. Dany spent weeks at Dragonstone in the Dothraki Sea, and it should takes weeks to get her to Vaes Dothrak now, just as it would take an army to move back from Vaes Dothrak to Slaver's Bay.

[Universal Sword Donor]

3 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Well there are couple more, with him going to the Wall, being fascinated by dragons, and a lot of his interactions with Shae. It's all behind a very jaded exterior, but there is still a small child there behind it

He goes to the wall as a substitute for seeing the 7 Essosi wonders as a coming of age. That's the opposite of being a child

He was fascinated by dragons as a child, nothing like that at all shows up except a dream. Nothing conscious at all. If being fascinated by something extinct, magical, or possibly fake makes you a child, then man a lot of scientists, UFOlogists and Isaac Newton were children.

Similar vein, if being tricked by someone of the opposite sex wrt relationship issues is childish, man take my driver's license and send me back to elementary school.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

2 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

He goes to the wall as a substitute for seeing the 7 Essosi wonders as a coming of age. That's the opposite of being a child

He was fascinated by dragons as a child, nothing like that at all shows up except a dream. Nothing conscious at all. If being fascinated by something extinct, magical, or possibly fake makes you a child, then man a lot of scientists, UFOlogists and Isaac Newton were children.

Similar vein, if being tricked by someone of the opposite sex wrt relationship issues is childish, man take my driver's license and send me back to elementary school.

I did not say that he's a child, nor that it's a bad thing, personally I think that all of as have some child like attributes and that's a good thing. All I've done is point out some of those attributes

[Universal Sword Donor]

14 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I did not say that he's a child, nor that it's a bad thing, personally I think that all of as have some child like attributes and that's a good thing. All I've done is point out some of those attributes

And I've pointed out that they are not child like.