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Alyn Oakenfist

Is Dany going to burn Lys, Myr and Tyrosh?

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So at this point, Dany sacking Volantis is such an obvious future plot point they might as well have "100% definitely dragonproof' written on their walls. But how about the other 3 slaver cities between Volantis and Westeros? Is Dany going to sack them too, or will she just skip them?

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Oh no please!!!! 

Dany wasted enough time in Slaver's Bay. Getting her ass to the IT must be her first concern. Then she can emancipate everyone with a whole Realm behind her. 

Not that that I support her becoming the ruler. Not Jon either. 

All hail King Tyrion Targaryen ! 

Jus kidding 

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1 minute ago, TheLastWolf said:

Dany wasted enough time in Slaver's Bay. Getting her ass to the IT must be her first concern. Then she can emancipate everyone with a whole Realm behind her. 

Oh come on, I'd love to spend a whole book finding out about Volantene and Lyseni culinary and culture

1 minute ago, TheLastWolf said:

All hail King Tyrion Targaryen ! 

Jus kidding 

Oh no, you summoned the crackpot wraiths

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1 minute ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Oh come on, I'd love to spend a whole book finding out about Volantene and Lyseni culinary and culture

GRRM is in his 70s. Just saying. Neither he nor fans can afford time. We need TWOW and ADOS now! And can't afford to extend it by wasting time on said places. We won't see Asshai, Yi To in the Song of Ice and fire series probably. The places you said can be experienced via other POVs. Or other books like Dunk and Egg or companion books like F&B. 

4 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Oh no, you summoned the crackpot wraiths

:cool4:

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1 hour ago, Travis said:

You sure are blowing this forum up. Couldn't most of these threads be answered in the Small Questions thread? Just wondering.

Ten out of eighteen of the active threads on page one started by you. Yeah, maybe time to tone it back a bit.

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There isn't enough time left in the plot, unless George plans on writing nine more 1500 page books. I wouldn't complain, but the story's gotta end.

I think all of the free cities, especially Volantis but also Lys, Myr, Tyrosh, Quohor, Norvos and Lorath are ripe for slave revolts and coups against the current status quo. Slavers Bay is the heart of the slave trade, but those cities all rely heavily on slaves. The disruption Dany has already caused will reach them, especially if the slaver coalition is beaten at Meereen. 

Edited by Nathan Stark

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No, I don't think so.

While Tyrosh and Lys have pirates to catch slaves, the Three Cities are not the biggest slave providers, nor do they train slaves. The training of slaves is done in Slaver's Bay by Ghis and Volantis. With the drop off slaves in Slaver's Bay being trained and sold, Tyrosh and Lys pirates have started to seek new grounds to catch slaves, such as in Hardhome, but they still don't have training centres. Once Slaver's bay and Volantis is put to heel violently, especially with the Dothraki following Dany, the slave market will fall dry, as there will be no training anymore to the standard they expect to pay for.

Another issue for the Three Sisters is that they barely have their own armies. They've majorly relied on the companies for hire. While there are many companies, most are small ones (less than 100 knights/warriors). There are only a few large companies, the largest being the Golden Company. The Golden Company is fighting a war in Westeros for themselves. Storm Crows, Second Sons (per pre-release of Tyrion's chapters of tWoW) and now the Windblown side with Dany. And she also has also all the Unsullied (actually trained in defense), and a navy of Ironborn who will at some point get renowned for smashing the navy of Volantis. George might invent some other company of 2000 men, and pile up some small companies along with it. But how they will defend three different cities against Dany's army after Volantis falls is nonsensical to me. On top of that, we know companies prefer being on the winning side over money even. Not any of the Three Sisters I imagine can pay those small and mediocre companies enough to fight against Dothraki, Unsullied, superior and larger companies and Ironborn and dragons. 

I also consider the Three Sisters smart enough to realize this themselves, and instead of offering resistance, with the fall out of the slave training market, will make a voluntarily peace offer - that they submit to her abolishment of slavery in return for peace and her not destroying their cities. Dany will accept and head for Pentos to teach Illyrio a lesson in betraying her (and her brother) for Aegon.   

Edited by sweetsunray

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1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

No, I don't think so.

While Tyrosh and Lys have pirates to catch slaves, the Three Cities are not the biggest slave providers, nor do they train slaves. The training of slaves is done in Slaver's Bay by Ghis and Volantis.

That is incorrect. Bedslaves are bred and trained in Lys, just as debtors are enslaved there, too. This is a very functioning slaver society, one that doesn't rely on the import of slaves but is capable to produce their own slaves - just as the Old South was back in the day.

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

With the drop off slaves in Slaver's Bay being trained and sold, Tyrosh and Lys pirates have started to seek new grounds to catch slaves, such as in Hardhome, but they still don't have training centres. Once Slaver's bay and Volantis is put to heel violently, especially with the Dothraki following Dany, the slave market will fall dry, as there will be no training anymore to the standard they expect to pay for.

See above. They have their own training centers. Slaver's Bay produces certain elite slaves, but the Lyseni do have their own bedslaves. They don't have to import slaves from Yunkai for that purpose. We have no idea what kind of slaves the Myrmen and Tyroshi produce, but there is no indication that they are dependent on Slaver's Bay to maintain their way of life.

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

Another issue for the Three Sisters is that they barely have their own armies. They've majorly relied on the companies for hire.

That is incorrect, too. If you read FaB, Lys does have an actual army and navy in addition to the sellsails and sellswords they employ - who, for the most part, should be dominated by people from the Three Daughters considering that the Disputed Lands are disputed between these three city states.

These people live in a slaver culture, too, and they profit from that. They would have no interest in abolishing slavery.

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

While there are many companies, most are small ones (less than 100 knights/warriors). There are only a few large companies, the largest being the Golden Company. The Golden Company is fighting a war in Westeros for themselves. Storm Crows, Second Sons (per pre-release of Tyrion's chapters of tWoW) and now the Windblown side with Dany. And she also has also all the Unsullied (actually trained in defense), and a navy of Ironborn who will at some point get renowned for smashing the navy of Volantis. George might invent some other company of 2000 men, and pile up some small companies along with it. But how they will defend three different cities against Dany's army after Volantis falls is nonsensical to me. On top of that, we know companies prefer being on the winning side over money even. Not any of the Three Sisters I imagine can pay those small and mediocre companies enough to fight against Dothraki, Unsullied, superior and larger companies and Ironborn and dragons. 

That is the baseless assumption that the many companies which are still in existence are small and insignificant - we don't know anything about the other companies, but by now we learned that there are many out there still. With there a war threatening between the Three Daughters early in AFfC/ADwD it stands to reason that the bulk of the companies are still in that region, not involved in fighting in the far east.

The Three Daughters should do anything in their power to keep their slaves - and unlike the Volantenes or the Ghiscari they have the means to prevent a slave uprising. We are told the slave-free people ratio in the Three Daughters is 3:1, not 5:1 as it is in Volantis, or larger still, as it is in Slaver's Bay. Unlike Volantis, the Three Daughters don't have a standing army and navy made up of slaves and they have the funds to employ further sellswords and sellsails. Not to mention that they have time and opportunity for a preemptive stirke, i.e. a massive bloodbath to put their slaves in prevent and teach them the price of comtemplating revolution - something the Volantenes cannot do. They are dependent on their slave soldiers and cannot even use them against the red priests.

9 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So at this point, Dany sacking Volantis is such an obvious future plot point they might as well have "100% definitely dragonproof' written on their walls. But how about the other 3 slaver cities between Volantis and Westeros? Is Dany going to sack them too, or will she just skip them?

Daenerys won't have to sack Volantis. The Volantene slaves will free themselves ... perhaps only when they hear that Daenerys is alive and that the tiger soldiers who sailed to Slaver's Bay joined her, but nobody will have to burn down Volantis. Perhaps there will have to be some fighting to get behind the Black Wall, but I think even that won't be necessary. The bulk of the slaves should attend their degenerate masters behind that wall ... and they should hack them all to pieces during the original uprising, one expects.

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Daenerys is the main protagonist of the series.  The hero, if you will.  I don't think Martin will take her story in that direction.  And besides, the slaves in those cities will free themselves.  The war for freedom in western Essos will start in Volantis and spread from there.   

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Just now, Prince Rhaego's Soul said:

Daenerys is the main protagonist of the series.  The hero, if you will.  I don't think Martin will take her story in that direction.  And besides, the slaves in those cities will free themselves.  The war for freedom in western Essos will start in Volantis and spread from there.   

Yes it's definitely Dany. Or wait, is it Jon? Yeah, it's definitely Jon. Or maybe Tyrion? Could be. Or maybe Arya?

 

Or maybe, just maybe, this series doesn't have one protagonist, but rather a few different characters (mainly Jon, Dany and Tyrion) who are all very flawed individuals, and have committed quite a lot of fuck ups

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Just now, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Yes it's definitely Dany. Or wait, is it Jon? Yeah, it's definitely Jon. Or maybe Tyrion? Could be. Or maybe Arya?

 

Or maybe, just maybe, this series doesn't have one protagonist, but rather a few different characters (mainly Jon, Dany and Tyrion) who are all very flawed individuals, and have committed quite a lot of fuck ups

The main protagonist is definitely Daenerys Targaryen.  

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1 minute ago, Prince Rhaego's Soul said:
2 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Yes it's definitely Dany. Or wait, is it Jon? Yeah, it's definitely Jon. Or maybe Tyrion? Could be. Or maybe Arya?

 

Or maybe, just maybe, this series doesn't have one protagonist, but rather a few different characters (mainly Jon, Dany and Tyrion) who are all very flawed individuals, and have committed quite a lot of fuck ups

The main protagonist is definitely Daenerys Targaryen.  

Based on what?

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1 minute ago, Prince Rhaego's Soul said:
3 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Based on what?

She's fighting the evil masters and helping the slaves.  She brought back the dragons from extinction.  

Yes because this is a fairy tale. Silly me, thinking it was a complex deconstruction of medieval fantasy.

Also, Jon is fighting the existential ice zombies. Does that not count as a main protagonist to you?

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11 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Yes because this is a fairy tale. Silly me, thinking it was a complex deconstruction of medieval fantasy.

Also, Jon is fighting the existential ice zombies. Does that not count as a main protagonist to you?

Jon screwed and he has caused more damage at the wall than the Night's King.  

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6 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:
36 minutes ago, Prince Rhaego's Soul said:

Jon screwed and he has caused more damage at the wall than the Night's King.  

But does fighting the Others not count as a main protagonist? That was the question asked.

Evil slaver guys are more important then the existential ice zombie threat, how dare you besmirch the good name of the God-Queen Daenaerys Targaryen?

Edited by Alyn Oakenfist

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