Skiing?

[Anthony Appleyard]

I have read through the original WoIaF books (7 in Britain, with A Dance with Dragons in 2 volumes), including much about surviving a severe winter with deep snow in Winterfell. To move about in the snow, the story mentions "bear-paws", i.e. snowshoes ; but neither in The North nor north of the Wall can I find any mention of skis, although they would have been very useful. Wildlings on skis would have run rings round Wall-garrison men patrolling on horses, when snow lay on the ground. Compare real events in the Winter War between Finland and the USSR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War . In the real world, skis were used in the far north of Europe and Asia since millennia BC: see  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_skiing.

 

[TheLastWolf]

Skagos is St Moritz in Winter 

[talvikorppi]

This is something that has always bugged me - being from a country where people have moved around on skis in winter for millenia! Or used sleighs - essentially containers put on skis.

I think the simple explanation is that GRRM doesn't know very much about snow or winter.

Sure, he's experienced some. I think in some old interview he described how horrified he was of the winters he experienced where he went to college, somewhere in northern mid-western US, an area that experiences severe blizzards. But GRRM doesn't strike me as a very outdoorsy guy, he likes chess, reading, writing, cinema etc., indoor pursuits.

Also, skis are mostly a Eurasian thing, North American native peoples, apart fom the Arctic peoples who did use dog-sleighs, seem to have used snowshoes. One explanation could be that North American snow is different. No, really. Ask any professional alpine or cross-country skiier!

North American snow tends to be drier, more powdery, sharper, with more traction. By comparison, European and far eastern snow, e.g. Japanese (I'm not sure about Siberia, might be similar to NA) is far wetter, more viscous, softer, slipperier.

Snowshoes work better on dry, powdery snow, skis better on wet, viscous snow.

A few years ago "snowshoeing" became trendy in my country but it was a bit useless. Far too often the snowshoes got glogged up with clumps of the wet, viscous snow, and skis would've been a far better mode of transport, gliding over the snow, only sinking to your ankles or so. The idea is to glide.

Conversely, skis aren't that good in deep, dry, powdery snow unless the skis are very wide (15 cm /6"), otherwise you just sink to your knees or above in the snow and the glide is bad anyway. Wide snowshoes allow you to "walk" over the snow, only sinking to your ankles or so. The idea is not to sink.

GRRM is far more familiar with the North American snowshoe tradition so used it in his books. Though I think one of the wildling clans in ADWD had (dog-pulled?) sleighs with bone runners (skis!).

Maybe all snow in Westeros is of the "dry" North American kind and that is why they don't have skis. Or more likely, GRRM wasn't aware of the millenia-old ski tradition... But as a history buff, he must know about Finland's Winter War. In which skiing troops (and their warm woolens knitted by the home front - Arya, take note) made all the difference.

I just think GRRM doesn't know very much about winter or much like it. I live in a country with real winter (snow, ice) and I love winter. The air is so fresh, everything is so clean under the snow. It's crisp, no-nonsense, clean, pure, fresh.

 

[CamiloRP]

On 10/26/2020 at 1:06 PM, talvikorppi said:

This is something that has always bugged me - being from a country where people have moved around on skis in winter for millenia! Or used sleighs - essentially containers put on skis.

I think the simple explanation is that GRRM doesn't know very much about snow or winter.

Sure, he's experienced some. I think in some old interview he described how horrified he was of the winters he experienced where he went to college, somewhere in northern mid-western US, an area that experiences severe blizzards. But GRRM doesn't strike me as a very outdoorsy guy, he likes chess, reading, writing, cinema etc., indoor pursuits.

Also, skis are mostly a Eurasian thing, North American native peoples, apart fom the Arctic peoples who did use dog-sleighs, seem to have used snowshoes. One explanation could be that North American snow is different. No, really. Ask any professional alpine or cross-country skiier!

North American snow tends to be drier, more powdery, sharper, with more traction. By comparison, European and far eastern snow, e.g. Japanese (I'm not sure about Siberia, might be similar to NA) is far wetter, more viscous, softer, slipperier.

Snowshoes work better on dry, powdery snow, skis better on wet, viscous snow.

A few years ago "snowshoeing" became trendy in my country but it was a bit useless. Far too often the snowshoes got glogged up with clumps of the wet, viscous snow, and skis would've been a far better mode of transport, gliding over the snow, only sinking to your ankles or so. The idea is to glide.

Conversely, skis aren't that good in deep, dry, powdery snow unless the skis are very wide (15 cm /6"), otherwise you just sink to your knees or above in the snow and the glide is bad anyway. Wide snowshoes allow you to "walk" over the snow, only sinking to your ankles or so. The idea is not to sink.

GRRM is far more familiar with the North American snowshoe tradition so used it in his books. Though I think one of the wildling clans in ADWD had (dog-pulled?) sleighs with bone runners (skis!).

Maybe all snow in Westeros is of the "dry" North American kind and that is why they don't have skis. Or more likely, GRRM wasn't aware of the millenia-old ski tradition... But as a history buff, he must know about Finland's Winter War. In which skiing troops (and their warm woolens knitted by the home front - Arya, take note) made all the difference.

I just think GRRM doesn't know very much about winter or much like it. I live in a country with real winter (snow, ice) and I love winter. The air is so fresh, everything is so clean under the snow. It's crisp, no-nonsense, clean, pure, fresh.

 

Chill, Osha.

Tho I must say, I love the snow deep dive, it's not something I expected even to be real and it's so cool!