Incels:

[Xray the Enforcer]

Yeah, but why are you posting that nonsense here? Nobody wants to engage in that kind of bad-faith fuckery, so you're just serving to spread those ideas even further. 

[Fragile Bird]

I revived this thread just to report that the incel who used his van to run over women on a Toronto sidewalk, killing 10 and injuring 16, was convicted of 10 counts of murder and 16 counts of attempted murder yesterday. The judge rejected his defense that, as a person on the autism spectrum, he didn't have the empathy to understand what he was doing.

Quote

In rendering her decision, which was broadcast on YouTube Wednesday morning, Justice Anne Molloy said Alek Minassian's rampage was "the act of a reasoning mind," and noted that the 28 year old has "no remorse for it and no empathy for his victims."

"He freely chose the option that was morally wrong, knowing what the consequences would be for himself, and for everybody else," Molloy said in her decision. "It does not matter that he does not have remorse, nor empathize with the victims.

"Lack of empathy for the suffering of victims, even an incapacity to empathize for whatever reason, does not constitute a defence."

Victims and family members of the deceased were pleased, to say the least.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/van-attack-trial-decision-1.5933687

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

8 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I revived this thread just to report that the incel who used his van to run over women on a Toronto sidewalk, killing 10 and injuring 16, was convicted of 10 counts of murder and 16 counts of attempted murder yesterday. The judge rejected his defense that, as a person on the autism spectrum, he didn't have the empathy to understand what he was doing.

Victims and family members of the deceased were pleased, to say the least.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/van-attack-trial-decision-1.5933687

The ruling seems just to me.

I'm curious Birdie, given our age gap, what do you make of incels? Was there something comparable when you were young? To me it just seems like the oddest thing in the world, and I can't say I've met anyone in my general age range that has expressed anything comparable to what these guys feel.

[Jace, Extat]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

The ruling seems just to me.

I'm curious Birdie, given our age gap, what do you make of incels? Was there something comparable when you were young? To me it just seems like the oddest thing in the world, and I can't say I've met anyone in my general age range that has expressed anything comparable to what these guys feel.

What they feel is entitlement.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

5 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

What they feel is entitlement.

It seems like a strange inverse of entitlement compared to toxic men of past generations though.

[Jace, Extat]

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

It seems like a strange inverse of entitlement compared to toxic men of past generations though.

Ah, the good ol' days. When men at least would leave the house to rape a bitch. Now they expect the rapee to be delivered to mommy's house. Free of charge, of course, 'cause that LoL sponsorship is right around the corner.

[Fragile Bird]

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

The ruling seems just to me.

I'm curious Birdie, given our age gap, what do you make of incels? Was there something comparable when you were young? To me it just seems like the oddest thing in the world, and I can't say I've met anyone in my general age range that has expressed anything comparable to what these guys feel.

This guy was 28. It's good you don't know someone like him, but you actually might, you know, and just take what they say as male bantering and joking. Years ago Kalbear said in numerous threads on similar topics that men have an obligation to speak up in reaction to male friends and acquaintances who express repulsive views, whether about women or PoC or immigrants or religion or other matters, and the failing of men is that they don't. Or won't.

I think when I was younger men had the ability to be outright misogynists without a lot of pushback from anyone. There has been a huge increase in the number of unmarried people, partly due, I think, to the fact that women don't want to be in unequal relationships and marriages. I have not done any research into the subject so I'm just saying this from years of observation, but so many of us have seen miserable relationships and trodden on women among our friends and relatives that marriage didn't interest us unless we met someone we really felt compatible with. Perhaps that is at the root of it all, women, ya know, just think too much of themselves today!

[Heartofice]

It’s good that he’s going to jail for that.

Incels are really IMO just another group of extreme outlier on the edges of society that I don’t think are all that different to many other extremists. 
 

They believe there is a system that is working against them, that there is an truth that most people can’t see, they believe that they are better people because they can see the truth. They are angry at the world and want to revolutionise it ( some of them, other just want to revel in the misery)

Really I don’t see them as particularly different to Qanon folks, anti vaccers, Islamic terrorists .. those sort of people. It’s just that their focus is born out of alienation and obsession with sex. You allow these groups to get together and amplify their own theories and intensify their ideas and it gets out of hand 

[Ephraim'sFruit]

2 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

It’s good that he’s going to jail for that.

Incels are really IMO just another group of extreme outlier on the edges of society that I don’t think are all that different to many other extremists. 
 

You mean like ones that are an incel but also commit crimes? 

Im somewhat of an incel and yeh i have a lot of issues and anger about it but im not violent or anything. Anger about the situation i mean, not anger directed at women. 

Seems not fair to put people in with high level political extremism through something thats really no fault of their own. "Involuntary celebate"  means celibacy regardless of whether or not you want it.

[Heartofice]

3 minutes ago, Ephraim'sFruit said:

You mean like ones that are an incel but also commit crimes? 

Im somewhat of an incel and yeh i have a lot of issues and anger about it but im not violent or anything. Anger about the situation i mean, not anger directed at women. 

Seems not fair to put people in with high level political extremism through something thats really no fault of their own. "Involuntary celebate"  means celibacy regardless of whether or not you want it.

Yeah, but I think like all these communities there are different levels of it. Probably only a tiny percentage of incels go out and hurt people, i suspect most just sit in their basement and send memes and self loathe.

[Ephraim'sFruit]

Yeh i remember early days of the internet seeing others guys similar to myself. And theyd post some rant about it and id be like "yeh right on bro" 

From there online communities form which gave way to a lot of legit extremism. 

Im just too old at this point to muster up the energy to rage too hard about anything.

If i was still young i could see myself getting wrapped up in something like that.

Its just a very difficult thing to help people with. Its not like we can say "ok incels are struggling to fit in with society so lets mandate that they all are given a woman who likes them" 

 

Do we want to be a civilization that lives up the ideals of trying to help everyone become a part of society and all the good and bad that comes with that or do we just declare people as enemies of the state? I surely dont have the correct answer.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Ah, the good ol' days. When men at least would leave the house to rape a bitch. Now they expect the rapee to be delivered to mommy's house. Free of charge, of course, 'cause that LoL sponsorship is right around the corner.

Not sure they could handle even that, given the nature of the subculture.

1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said:

This guy was 28. It's good you don't know someone like him, but you actually might, you know, and just take what they say as male bantering and joking. Years ago Kalbear said in numerous threads on similar topics that men have an obligation to speak up in reaction to male friends and acquaintances who express repulsive views, whether about women or PoC or immigrants or religion or other matters, and the failing of men is that they don't. Or won't.

Oh I have experience with this, and what I've learned mostly is that when a good friend's who his also your friend now tells you some darker thinks about their relationship, listen and then confront your friend when the time is right.

Quote

I think when I was younger men had the ability to be outright misogynists without a lot of pushback from anyone. There has been a huge increase in the number of unmarried people, partly due, I think, to the fact that women don't want to be in unequal relationships and marriages. I have not done any research into the subject so I'm just saying this from years of observation, but so many of us have seen miserable relationships and trodden on women among our friends and relatives that marriage didn't interest us unless we met someone we really felt compatible with. Perhaps that is at the root of it all, women, ya know, just think too much of themselves today!

I think there are just far too many factors at play to dissect why marriages are down in a number of places.

[Conflicting Thought]

1 hour ago, Ephraim'sFruit said:

Its just a very difficult thing to help people with. Its not like we can say "ok incels are struggling to fit in with society so lets mandate that they all are given a woman who likes them" 

And even if that was possible, it wouldnt help them, cuz thats not what they want. Maybe if we could mandate that they attend therapy... 

[Ephraim'sFruit]

40 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said:

 cuz thats not what they want. 

What is it then? 

Im not even sure i qualify for what its supposed to be.

The term "involuntary celibate" more or less describes what I am but Im not a member of any political group called "The Incels" or anything like that. 

 

Basically my concern is by "incel" do we mean someone who is part of a collection of political groups like the MGTOW type stuff?

Or does that include people like me who arent really a threat to physically harm anybody or to do any terrorist stuff?

I think the worst i do is complain about it, perhaps ive been complaining too much about it on here the last couple of days.

I read a twitter post the other day that was a memo sent to congress by the FBI (i wasnt able to confirm the validity so it could be a troll) about extremism and one of the "extremist ideologies" was involuntary celibates.

I dont know if this means they are going to investigate people for being part of active incel themed political groups or just anybody who complains about not getting laid or what?

[Theda Baratheon]

34 minutes ago, Ephraim'sFruit said:

What is it then? 

Im not even sure i qualify for what its supposed to be.

The term "involuntary celibate" more or less describes what I am but Im not a member of any political group called "The Incels" or anything like that. 

 

Basically my concern is by "incel" do we mean someone who is part of a collection of political groups like the MGTOW type stuff?

Or does that include people like me who arent really a threat to physically harm anybody or to do any terrorist stuff?

I think the worst i do is complain about it, perhaps ive been complaining too much about it on here the last couple of days.

I read a twitter post the other day that was a memo sent to congress by the FBI (i wasnt able to confirm the validity so it could be a troll) about extremism and one of the "extremist ideologies" was involuntary celibates.

I dont know if this means they are going to investigate people for being part of active incel themed political groups or just anybody who complains about not getting laid or what?

I mean this is pretty silly and alarmist nonsense to be honest with you. 
 

when people say incel they are obviously not talking about people who just haven’t, for whatever reason, had sex in years or ever. 
 

incels is quite obviously a derogatory term (but also a self imposed one) by extreme misogynists who actually don’t want to genuinely connect to women, but hate them and want to dominate them. 

theyre not a bunch of sad guys who are a bit sexually frustrated, have you ever read any of this handmaids tale type of torture porn fantasy that they have for women? It’s horrifying. 

I haven’t visited any of these communities to take a look in YEARS so they might have changed but the constant insulting themselves was also a nice special toxicity about them. Constantly calling each other ugly, disgusting etc and yet still expecting model women and mocking any other women’s appearance. 
 

these aren’t simply fellas to just feel sorry for, I just can’t do it, I’ve seen too much from these toxic communities. The only people I feel for are the actual children they radicalise and indoctrinate. But other than that, it’s a community and mindset to absolutely call out and to challenge. I’m sorry people are horny and lonely but dreaming about elaborate ways to violently r*pe and torture women is ...Not It 

[Ephraim'sFruit]

1 minute ago, Theda Baratheon said:

 

when people say incel they are obviously not talking about people who just haven’t, for whatever reason, had sex in years or ever. 
 

 

Its wasnt that obvious to me.

Once a term like "incel" becomes recognized by the general population as synonymous with something very sinister then i dont see whats to stop it from being used to discredit and smear a person and lump them in with the entirety of the extremism.

Not that im personally important enough for anybody to feel a need to discredit and smear me but I just mean in general society.

As of now being called an incel is normally taken to mean "haha your a loser that women hate" which sucks but its not all that bad. Not as bad if its taken as "you are a dangerous terrorist"