Nictarion Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Red Tiger said: Right, but that's kinda the issue. The diva aspect only works in certain situations. For every Jerry Rice, you will have 20 Chad Ochocincos. Umm...Chad was a multiple x All Pro, and for a stretch of about 3 years (05-07) was arguably the best WR in the league. His antics were much more lighthearted (sending DB’s Pepto, his TD celebrations, etc) than most diva WR’s. He got along great with both Carson Palmer and Marvin Lewis. Bad example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said: Now I'm just left wondering if Rice could have still been the best WR ever if he ate McDonalds everyday? Chad still looks exactly like he did when he was playing. Whatever he’s doing, it’s working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 25 minutes ago, Nictarion said: Umm...Chad was a multiple x All Pro, and for a stretch of about 3 years (05-07) was arguably the best WR in the league. His antics were much more lighthearted (sending DB’s Pepto, his TD celebrations, etc) than most diva WR’s. He got along great with both Carson Palmer and Marvin Lewis. Bad example. No, not a bad example at all. He was multiple time All Pro and a great individual player, but he was oftentimes more trouble than he was worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Red Tiger said: No, not a bad example at all. He was multiple time All Pro and a great individual player, but he was oftentimes more trouble than he was worth. No he wasn’t. Silly TD celebrations and changing your name are not even close to the same thing as having meltdowns on the sidelines, and getting into it with your QB about not getting the ball, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, Nictarion said: No he wasn’t. Silly TD celebrations and changing your name are not even close to the same thing as having meltdowns on the sidelines, and getting into it with your QB about not getting the ball, etc. Not talking about that. The problem with him was that offenses had to be tailored for him. If an offense was even slightly complex or geared more towards the run, he had trouble adapting. Guys like Moss and Owens for all of their flaws did not have that issue. I consider needing others to adapt to you to be a diva issue, just a different kind of one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 Just now, Red Tiger said: Not talking about that. The problem with him was that offenses had to be tailored for him. If an offense was even slightly complex or geared more towards the run, he had trouble adapting. Guys like Moss and Owens for all of their flaws did not have that issue. If you’re talking about when he went to NE, he was 33 years old by then. There might be some truth to him struggling with the playbook up there, but he was also just well past him prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Nictarion said: If you’re talking about when he went to NE, he was 33 years old by then. There might be some truth to him struggling with the playbook up there, but he was also just well past him prime. No, it started way earlier than that. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ochocincos-offensive-problems-didnt-necessarily-begin-with-pats/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 18 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: I literally wouldn't bat an eye at trading four first round picks for the rights to Lawrence if he was fully on board with my franchise. And that's not even the ceiling on what I may offer if the situation merited it. Not in a million years. No one prospect is worth crippling your franchise. Say you do that and season one or two he suffers a career ending injury, now what? Or he isn't nearly the same in your system, or you change your system to him and now the WR's aren't the type he needs. The only way I would do the two 1st round picks is if my def was top 5, had above average WR's, a top tier off line, and none of them leaving in FA. Maybe then I trade two 1st round picks for someone who could be a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, Red Tiger said: No, it started way earlier than that. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ochocincos-offensive-problems-didnt-necessarily-begin-with-pats/ I stopped reading when I saw Geoff Hobson’s name as the source. Guy is an absolute clown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, Nictarion said: I stopped reading when I saw Geoff Hobson’s name as the source. Guy is an absolute clown. Touche, but this article is not the first time I read about TJ needing to help Chad out with the playbook. I read that it went on since they were at Oregon. I dunno, obviously it's from outside sources, but the Pats offenses are not THAT complex, so im inclined to believe that Chad really was that lousy at learning playbooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 2 hours ago, DMC said: To be clear, I wasn't criticizing OBJ in any way. Just saying Rice definitely did not chew out his teammates on the sidelines during the better part of a decade when I watched many of his games. Fair. I was trying to provide some comparison to former greats. The commentator I was listening to listed a string of them as examples of similar types of behavior. My guess is we just both forget about it with time and back then there wasn’t a camera trained on your every movement. Imagine the 90’s Cowboys being covered today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 42 minutes ago, Nictarion said: No he wasn’t. Silly TD celebrations and changing your name are not even close to the same thing as having meltdowns on the sidelines, and getting into it with your QB about not getting the ball, etc. I loved Chad's antics. All pro-sports are made better with a dash of pro-wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 31 minutes ago, dbunting said: Not in a million years. No one prospect is worth crippling your franchise. Say you do that and season one or two he suffers a career ending injury, now what? Or he isn't nearly the same in your system, or you change your system to him and now the WR's aren't the type he needs. The only way I would do the two 1st round picks is if my def was top 5, had above average WR's, a top tier off line, and none of them leaving in FA. Maybe then I trade two 1st round picks for someone who could be a bust. Trading a bunch of firsts doesn't mean you're crippling your franchise. First rounders bust out all the time, and if we're playing the what if game, what if the prospect you get back becomes Mahomes? You can spend a few drafts selectively trading back to acquire more picks, and if you can draft well, you're fine. Trevor Lawrence is the best prospect since Luck, and he has a decent chance to be better than him. He has no flaws unless you worry that he's too tall (6'6 seems to be the point where height becomes a negative). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 32 minutes ago, Red Tiger said: Touche, but this article is not the first time I read about TJ needing to help Chad out with the playbook. I read that it went on since they were at Oregon. I dunno, obviously it's from outside sources, but the Pats offenses are not THAT complex, so im inclined to believe that Chad really was that lousy at learning playbooks. Oregon State, FYI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 10 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: My guess is we just both forget about it with time and back then there wasn’t a camera trained on your every movement. Nah, this wasn't a difference in TV directing. Rice was definitely not the type to chew out teammates in public (or even in private). The much more likely explanation is where/whomever you heard this from is full of shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 24 minutes ago, DMC said: Nah, this wasn't a difference in TV directing. Rice was definitely not the type to chew out teammates in public (or even in private). The much more likely explanation is where/whomever you heard this from is full of shit. It's possible, but the person has credibility and has been covering football for a lot time. What I want to know is why when I put in various searches in Google regarding Rice and sideline antics I keep getting stories about Lord Butt Fumble eating a hot on the sideline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: Trading a bunch of firsts doesn't mean you're crippling your franchise. First rounders bust out all the time, and if we're playing the what if game, what if the prospect you get back becomes Mahomes? You can spend a few drafts selectively trading back to acquire more picks, and if you can draft well, you're fine. Trevor Lawrence is the best prospect since Luck, and he has a decent chance to be better than him. He has no flaws unless you worry that he's too tall (6'6 seems to be the point where height becomes a negative). Bolded...doesn't this counter your assertion to blow a bunch on one guy? Underlined how many Mahommes are there? There are way more Sam Bradfords, Ryan Leafs, Alex Smiths.... And as to trading a bunch of firsts not crippling your franchise, tell that to the Texans over the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 2 hours ago, Killjoybear said: Oregon State, FYI. Aye, good sir, I just didn't think there was much of a point to mentioning the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 35 minutes ago, dbunting said: Bolded...doesn't this counter your assertion to blow a bunch on one guy? Underlined how many Mahommes are there? There are way more Sam Bradfords, Ryan Leafs, Alex Smiths.... And as to trading a bunch of firsts not crippling your franchise, tell that to the Texans over the next few years. I mean sure, but in this case I think that would only be due to injury. Again, Lawrence has been called by some the best college QB prospect ever. I'm not sure that it's true, but he's in the conversation. He checks literally every box on and off the field, he has no flaws, and he would be an insanely huge star in Dallas. And the guys you listed were not seen in the same light Lawrence is. His ceiling could actually be higher than even Mahomes'. I'd break the bank for that guy. I wouldn't compare this hypothetical to the Texans. They traded two firsts and a second for a LT that's not elite while at the same time trading away a top three WR for a second and a bad contract. They're just dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 5 hours ago, Nictarion said: Chad still looks exactly like he did when he was playing. Whatever he’s doing, it’s working. Speaking of oldsters living right, did you see that video this summer of the 46 yr old T.O. running a 4.4 40? That was some stunning stuff, also adding I never did like T.O. but still... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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