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Is Daenerys justified in wiping out House Lannister/Baratheon since they tried to do the same to House Targaryen?


Mario Seddy
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8 minutes ago, frenin said:

No, they tried to kill her as soon as the siblings actually started plotting to take the Throne back.

Other than killing herself, so that Robert’s fat arse could sit securely on the Iron Throne,  I’m not sure that Daenerys had much choice in her marriage.

 

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6 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Other than killing herself, so that Robert’s fat arse could sit securely on the Iron Throne,  I’m not sure that Daenerys had much choice in her marriage.

 

Come on now, it's not like Dany wasn't egging Drogo into invading Westeros. 

You're always bringing up her choices, while forgetting that she wanted to take back what "was rightfully hers" almost as much as Viserys.

Edited by frenin
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15 minutes ago, frenin said:

Come on now, it's not like Dany wasn't egging Drogo into invading Westeros. 

You're always bringing up her choices, while forgetting that she wanted to take back what "was rightfully hers" almost as much as Viserys.

She urged him on one occasion.

I think you blame her for her very existence.  Had she not existed, Robert would have been secure, and could have focused on the Lannister threat.

Is she supposed just to accept that everything that was inflicted on her family and their supporters was justified?

Edited by SeanF
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1 hour ago, SeanF said:

She urged him on one occasion.

More like we saw her urging her in one occasion, it was clearly an ongoing discussion they were having.

 

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

I think you blame her for her very existence

If I did, I'd say it. It's a fictional world at the end of the day, what's the point of not speaking our minds.

I'm simply pointing the obvious, it wasn't Robert and his council who suddenly decided out of the blue to kill them just because.

The siblings were already taking steps towards an invasion. The decision to end them is a consequence of that, not viceversa.

 

 

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

Had she not existed, Robert would have been secure, and could have focused on the Lannister threat.

Robert's downfall has literally nothing to do with Dany tho. Dany not existing changes little about the early events of the war of the five kings.  

The throne would have gone to the Lannisters regardless and then to, if I had to guess, Young Griff.

Dany not existing would have saved us from Essos tho, I'll give you that.

 

 

Quote

Is she supposed just to accept that everything that was inflicted on her family and their supporters was justified?

Never said that, nor was that what was being argued.

 

Edited by frenin
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On 10/31/2020 at 1:45 PM, TheLastWolf said:

Sounds too Hitler-ish for me. Absolute power. "Die if you can't/wont accept me". Colonialism. Imperialism. 

This has to be one of the most bizarre comments I've ever seen. Half the buzzwords aren't even remotely related to the topic at hand. Are we just listing things we don't like?

How, exactly, is Dany killing individual for specific crimes, whether it is justifiable or not, related to intentional demographic shifting state-operated paradigms (colonialism) or extending one nation's rule over multiple ethnic groups through the use of force (imperialism)?

It isn't an example of absolute power either. Stannis rebelled against her father, attacked her mother's forces on Dragonstone, stood by Robert through his long rule, and later claimed to be king. If Stannis refuses to submit he must be killed, there is no way around it. She knows that. He knows that. Every one of their banner lords knows that.

If, on the other hand, she decided to commit familycide or to do something idiotic and burn down King's Landing for no good reason then I'd agree that's an example of "Die if you can't/won't accept me", but this isn't. Stannis rebelled, hunted her down, and then declared himself king. Even if he does bend the knee Dany would be well within her rights to have him killed. And this is coming from a person who doesn't like Dany.

(I'm not going to even touch the Reductio ad Hilterum)

Edited by Ivashanko
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14 hours ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

She is the Mad King's daughter. Surely her way of justifying her crimes will be according to that. Look at MMD's case. She killed an innocent woman because she wanted it and her justification was ridiculous.

How in seven hells is MMD innocent? She killed Dany's son, if anything burning her alive was too quick and easy for her. 

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2 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

How in seven hells is MMD innocent? She killed Dany's son, if anything burning her alive was too quick and easy for her. 

MMD never killed Rhaego. She told Dany to not enter the tent and Jorah moved Dany in the tent. How is that MMD's fault?

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11 minutes ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

MMD never killed Rhaego. She told Dany to not enter the tent and Jorah moved Dany in the tent. How is that MMD's fault?

Here's what she said: 

 

Quote
Dany turned to the godswife. "You warned me that only death could pay for life. I thought you meant the horse."
"No," Mirri Maz Duur said. "That was a lie you told yourself. You knew the price."
Had she? Had she? If I look back I am lost. "The price was paid," Dany said. "The horse, my child, Quaro and Qotho, Haggo and Cohollo. The price was paid and paid and paid." She rose from her cushions. "Where is Khal Drogo? Show him to me, godswife, maegi, bloodmage, whatever you are. Show me Khal Drogo. Show me what I bought with my son's life."

It makes it quite clear, IMO, that she tricked Dany into believing that the horse was the only payment needed. 

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17 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Here's what she said: 

 

It makes it quite clear, IMO, that she tricked Dany into believing that the horse was the only payment needed. 

MMD was clear do not enter the tend and Rhaego was moving before that. So how exactly is it MMD's fault. Mind you she never said that Rhaego's life paid for Drogo's. She choose to mock her saying you know that this wasn't enough. 

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14 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

How in seven hells is MMD innocent? She killed Dany's son, if anything burning her alive was too quick and easy for her. 

This exact attitude is what's so disturbing about some of the Targaryens, and their supporters/apologists. Mirri Maz Duur had every right to hate Dany, Drogo, and all of the dothraki. She explains all of this very clearly. They burned down her home and her village; they slaughtered her entire family; they raped her over and over again. They destroyed her entire life, all because of the evil of the "might makes right" attitude which both Dany and Drogo believed in, and now Dany's child has been prophesised to be even more brutal and destructive of a conqueror, to destroy the lives of even more innocent people.

But rather than having some empathy and understanding Mirri's situation, as Dany very well could have - Dany too had her home taken from her, her family killed, and was raped - she decided to indulge in some classic Targaryen blood and fire vengeance to satisfy herself. 

Edited by WhatAnArtist!
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19 hours ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

But rather than having some empathy and understanding Mirri's situation, as Dany very well could have - Dany too had her home taken from her, her family killed, and was raped - she decided to indulge in some classic Targaryen blood and fire vengeance to satisfy herself. 

Dany saved her from being raped by the Dothraki and took her into her household (as a slave, admittedly). 

 

Mirri mocked Dany about Rhaego and Drogo to her face, she killed Dany's child and turned Drogo into a vegetable, and you think that Dany should empathize with her? The woman who killed her babe? Thanks for the good laugh. 

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39 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Dany saved her from being raped by the Dothraki and took her into her household (as a slave, admittedly). 

 

Mirri mocked Dany about Rhaego and Drogo to her face, she killed Dany's child and turned Drogo into a vegetable, and you think that Dany should empathize with her? The woman who killed her babe? Thanks for the good laugh. 

I don't blame MMD one bit for lashing back out at the people who took everything from her. I just don't expect Dany to be understanding about it in any world in the face of her child's death and husband's all but death. MMD didn't expect her to either for that matter.

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6 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

I don't blame MMD one bit for lashing back out at the people who took everything from her. I just don't expect Dany to be understanding about it in any world in the face of her child's death and husband's all but death. MMD didn't expect her to either for that matter.

That’s the point.  One can (and should) sympathise with both of them.  Reasonably enough, MMD considers that the only good Dothraki is a dead Dothraki, including their children.  And she wants to inflict exactly the same misery on Daenerys that her people inflicted on her.  Reasonably enough, Daenerys considers this a dreadful betrayal by someone she stuck her neck out to save.

Edited by SeanF
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5 hours ago, SeanF said:

That’s the point.  One can (and should) sympathise with both of them.  Reasonably enough, MMD considers that the only good Dothraki is a dead Dothraki, including their children.  And she wants to inflict exactly the same misery on Daenerys that her people inflicted on her.  Reasonably enough, Daenerys considers this a dreadful betrayal by someone she stuck her neck out to save.

Considering it a betrayal is not reasonable. The Dothraki destroyed her village and were gangraping her. Expecting loyalty from one of the victims of your people is naive at best. She was supposed to be thankful for the privilege of limiting the rape and expecting servitude after her village and everyone she cared about were gone? 

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32 minutes ago, RyanWidjaja1995 said:

I believe that Daenerys is somewhat justified in killing the Lannisters/Baratheons, as long as she didn't kill the innocent members of those families. I don't want these two great houses to become extinct just because of excessive revenge.

If Dany do not kill all L/B there is a chance that some of those survivors or their children would want to revenge their dead kins. So in that sense it would be "safer" for Dany to totally wipe out both of those houses.

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