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Zorral

Covid-19 #19 Tsunami Wave

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42 minutes ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

The main thing is the enforced quarantine I guess. That is only possible on islands I suspect and the intensity of the tracking would be illegal in most places. In addition to that most poor countries will lack the infrastructure to track people properly.

It is easier for islands but Mongolia also had a strict quarantine and shut down almost all foreign travel and worked extremely well - their first recorded case of community transmission was only a couple of weeks ago.

38 minutes ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

The documentary mentioned that Taiwan informed the WHO that something was going before China admitted anything and that the WHO ignored that information.

I think Taiwan are probably rightly obsessed by what is happening in China, particularly what is not being announced officially.

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23 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Bastard!

eta: mean bastard!

eta 2: really, really mean bastard!

:rofl:

I'm sorry, BIRD!, but my children when born will be part of the Chosen People. They have no need for the silly fat man flying around in the sky. 

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N95 Masks, essential PPE:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/magazine/n95-masks-market-covid.html

Quote

 

...The Baystate Health equipment specialists picked several boxes at random, and sliced them open to verify that the cargo was authentic. Artenstein was flooded with relief; the masks sealed to a person’s face. The respirators could be loaded into the semitrailers. The Baystate team had hired trucks normally used by the food-service industry so that their cargo would appear to be nothing more than refrigerated meats and vegetables. This precaution was taken to help keep the respirators secure; stories were circulating of federal agencies, also struggling to get respirators, appropriating shipments....

....Artenstein was about to direct Baystate headquarters to wire the payment when the dealer tapped him on the shoulder and said that the F.B.I. wanted to talk. Artenstein thought this was a joke. But then, he says, he was led to a glassed-in conference room deeper in the warehouse, where a pair of agents stood up from their laptop computers and showed him their badges. They explained that they were part of a new nationwide effort to make sure that medical equipment was getting to health care workers and not being hoarded by exploitative middlemen. Artenstein furnished proof that the respirators were destined for his hospitals. He was dismissed without a clear answer of what was going on. Hours ground past as he paced in the vast warehouse, developing contingency plans and checking in with the agents until it became clear they didn’t want to hear from him again. Finally, he was informed that the federal government was considering reallocating the shipment elsewhere.

Artenstein had to wonder: How had the U.S. medical system devolved to this? The Baystate Health team was just at the beginning of a monthslong battle to secure P.P.E. from an out-of-control market that the Trump administration would avoid closely managing — despite bipartisan calls to do so from mayors, governors, congressional representatives and the leaders of some of America’s largest health care workers’ unions and industry associations. Indeed, during the initial outbreak, the federal government would sometimes be the most feared player in that market, acting not in an oversight capacity but as its most powerful buyer and disruptive agent. Though the Trump administration would subsequently take action to improve the P.P.E. supply, the result of its efforts was a characteristically American, ongoing experiment in whether local governments and health care systems can fend for themselves during a deadly pandemic — an experiment that may have left the country unprepared to deal with a record-shattering “third wave” of infections this winter.....

 

I'd already forgotten about that, from back in April-May.  Florida rethugs howled that NYC was stealing all their trucks of medical supplies, when actually it went the other way around -- rumpty's henches were pressuring shipments geared for 'blue states' to be held up, and often directed to the red states, particularly Florida. Which state particularly, then, had so much surplus supply they had no idea what to with it. [That was Then. After came Winter Break and Memorial Day, and Florida's been burning red ever since.]  Kinda like They did with the US Post Office a few months later as election time rolled closer.

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In the middle of October my mom went into the hospital because of a pressure sore infection. She has been having increasing problems in walking and me being disabled myself, I can prepare meals for her, do light chores and all, but she has to be able to get up and go to the bathroom on her own.  But she was increasingly not doing that relying on adult diapers and liners. The weekend in October she didn't get out of her recliner at all and by Monday she was acting very strange and talking quite crazy. I called 911 and when she got to the hospital they said she had an infection down to the bone and put her on IV antibiotics. she stayed in the hospital for 1 week then got moved to a care facility. She has been in an isolated room this whole time per the new facility rules and she's been tested for Covid once a week.

I'm not allowed to visit her, only talk with her on the phone. She's still on IV antibiotics. Today she tested positive for Covid.

apparently she is the only one there currently who has tested positive. She has no symptoms. She already lost her sense of smell like 20 years ago. It could be a false positive, I'm hoping it is, but still...fuck

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14 minutes ago, drawkcabi said:

apparently she is the only one there currently who has tested positive. She has no symptoms. She already lost her sense of smell like 20 years ago. It could be a false positive, I'm hoping it is, but still...fuc

O I hope it is a false positive!  How very terrible for you.

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3 hours ago, drawkcabi said:

apparently she is the only one there currently who has tested positive. She has no symptoms. She already lost her sense of smell like 20 years ago. It could be a false positive, I'm hoping it is, but still...fuck

Damn it all. I’m hoping for the best, hoping it’s a false positive. But those pressure wounds are terrible things too. Thoughts and prayers for you both.  :grouphug:

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17 hours ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

Quarantine with daily controls for all travellers, positive people and people who had contact with positive people. They track the phones of people in quarantine and track you down if you leave and gov official visits you daily and explains the rules to you again. It is expected that other people report people who do not follow the rules and those people are fined and exposed online and on TV. They get all that they need from the goverment including a place to live for the duration of the quarantine if they do not live alone.

One guy visited his familiy and they mentioned everything he did including when he used a certain elevator to find people who had contact with him. That is only possible if your laws allow it and the case numbers is low. 

To ensure that every person has access to masks you have to buy them in pharmacies and they track how many you buy(max. 3 per week for adults more for children).

Special cabs that are disinfected between customers take travelers that arrive by plane to their place of quarantine. Those cabs do not transport normal customers and many drivers sleep in the cars to protect their families.

Staffed checkpoints at entrances with temperature measurements and and disinfection of hands and shoes seem to be common at many places. Although the documentary was a bit older and it seems that things are more relaxed now as most cases are imported.

The main thing is the enforced quarantine I guess. That is only possible on islands I suspect and the intensity of the tracking would be illegal in most places. In addition to that most poor countries will lack the infrastructure to track people properly.

They did mention that life for people who are not in quarantine is mostly normal except for heavy masks use in all puplic places even outside, temp checks and pretty excessive use of disinfectants. It was mentioned that avoiding a lockdown is a large motivation for many people although it was also said that even the people who disagree with the measures tend to follow them because doing what the law says is just the thing you do in Taiwan.

I thought they tracked everyone's phone, so if anyone gets COVID-19 they will immediately know who was where and when for super quick track and trace. I think that's something that won't be tolerated in most non-authoritatrian countries, and the USA(:leaving:). A lot of countries tried with a tracker app ans asked people to use it voluntarily. There's pretty decent uptake, but it's a long way from universal.

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Oxford vaccine shows 70% effectiveness:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55040635

Quote

The coronavirus vaccine developed by the University of Oxford stops 70% of people developing Covid symptoms, a large-scale trial shows. 

It will be seen as both a triumph and a disappointment after vaccines by Pfizer and Moderna showed 95% protection.

However, the Oxford jab is far cheaper, and is easier to store and get to every corner of the world than the other two. 

So it will still play a significant role in tackling the pandemic, if it is approved by regulators. 

There is also intriguing data that suggests perfecting the dose could increase protection up to 90%.

 

Edited by DaveSumm

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3 hours ago, Filippa Eilhart said:

no severe cases, but then again, it's only 30-ish people.

131 cases over the 2 treatment cohorts, 0 severe

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A very informative write up of the Oxford/AZ vaccine https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/11/23/oxford-az-vaccine-efficacy-data

Yes, there is no clear word about the statistics between the 2 doses and the 1 1/2 group.

One key difference that might also affect the efficacy numbers is they are using PCR to test efficacy instead of symptoms as in the Moderna and Pfizer cases.

Another is their placebo group actually receive a vaccine (a meningococcal vaccine IIRC) so it's more difficult for the participants to discern whether they received the real stuff or not. This is important because you will know if you get the vaccine instead of a salty solution. This might change the behaviour of the recipients and affect the readouts.

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I think a major concern about the vaccines produced by Moderna and Pfizer relate to the fact that normal vaccine development takes years because side-effects may take years to show up. People who get vaccines for themselves and their children hesitate because the question about long-term safety issues are the elephant in the room.

Reading the comments section to a story on the internet, someone was saying it’s already known that there are very few side-effects to vaccines made by the Pfizer/Moderna method because animal vaccines have been made for years, like the heart worm vaccine for dogs. Does anyone know more about this?

Secondly, I’m watching US news on the Oxford vaccine and the comment was made that their vaccine may never be approved in the US because of the confused way they’ve been reporting results. While the rest of the world let trials to continue about a week after their ‘safety incident’ was reported earlier this year, it took the US 7 weeks to approve the continuation of testing. The marked differences in efficacy depending on the doses also is troubling, 90% versus 62%, for example.

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Are we just doing everything Covid in one thread now?  We don't have separate threads for the personal stories and then more medical based discussion thread?  It looks like the last 'personal story' thread was locked only halfway though.

In any event, wanted to share my Covid wedding story from this weekend.  (Not my wedding!)  My cousin was supposed to have a big fancy wedding in Florida this past weekend.  Naturally that did not occur.  Instead he got married in Chicago.  There was the bride, the groom, 10 guests, one priest, one organ player, and one singer.  Everyone wore masks (and never removed them) and we spaced out in a church that would normally seat several hundred people.   The singer was behind a plexiglass wall.  The priest stood about 15 feet from the couple.  The rings were placed by the best man (who stood 10 feet from the couple) in a bowl of disinfectant, then one of those...gosh I've completely lost the words for this...those little cars you control and direct with a remote...anyway the best man directed the car with the rings to the priest who blessed them and then the car took the rings over to the couple who retrieved the rings from the disinfected and blessed bowl.  It was great.  There was no reception, instead there was a boxed cupcake and individual sized champagne bottle for everyone to take as they left.  They took pictures outside - for the group picture, every family bubble stood together with 6 feet between each bubble.  So my parents and I as one bubble, the grooms parents as another, the brides parents etc.  Also then pictures with each family bubble and the bride/groom with again, 6 feet between everyone.  I felt it was done pretty safely which is why I was willing to go.  It was certainly way way less exposure than my weekly trip to the grocery store.

Another first for me during Covid...a trial on Zoom!  It went surprisingly well.  Actually much easier to do it from the office where you have your computer and printer and all your documents handy instead of having to drag a limited number of things over to the courtroom.  Other than one witness having audio problems which were solved and one court reporter getting booted from Zoom for 10 minutes, we had no technology issues which was amazing!  I actually much preferred doing it on Zoom to going to court.

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Aw that's a cute way to do a covid wedding! I am somewhat relieved to see the spike here seems to be leveling off. Of course it's too soon to say for sure, but in general I've seen a very high compliance rate around here (although no one at my gym manages to cover their nose with their mask!!).

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A wholely different Covid wedding story, which is why this nation is doomed;

https://nypost.com/2020/11/21/secret-plans-helped-synagogue-pull-off-massive-maskless-wedding/

7000 people howling, without masks, indoors, for three days straight, in Brooklyn.  Yes.  SEVEN. THOUSAND. PEOPLE.  And somehow, nobody knew. Talk about a state within a state.  The governor's livid.  But it's too late now.  Shoulda cracked down on them LAST SUMMER.

 

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8 minutes ago, Zorral said:

A wholely different Covid wedding story, which is why this nation is doomed;

https://nypost.com/2020/11/21/secret-plans-helped-synagogue-pull-off-massive-maskless-wedding/

7000 people howling, without masks, indoors, for three days straight, in Brooklyn.  Yes.  SEVEN. THOUSAND. PEOPLE.  And somehow, nobody knew. Talk about a state within a state.  The governor's livid.  But it's too late now.  Shoulda cracked down on them LAST SUMMER.

 

There was a delegation from the Montreal Hasidic community that went down to NYC in, iirc, March, for holiday celebrations, just before the US/Canada border was locked down. They came back to Montreal and triggered a huge outbreak in their community and I don't think people have forgiven them yet for doing that.

This is just appalling. 

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None of these people should be admitted into the public hospitals, since they don't believe they are a part of the city, the state or even the country.  They have their own gddamned laws goddamn everybody else, they boast.  They need to compensate the communities they are destroying, and they need to dig the graves of the people they are killing.

Part of what is really frightening to me -- and so many -- this is a huge number of people, and it is in a community which isn't just hassids.  My hair stylist lives there.  We met last week by chance, here, on the street, both wearing masks, bumped elbows and chatted -- at Distance. This took place over the November 7th weekend. Until today, according to a text I got from him, he too had no idea this had taken place.

Plus -- you know -- I really like my stylist as a person and don't want him to suffer. He's good with hair, and is a really good person too.  He's been having a really hard time because of these people.  He and his partner sort of sneak around these days.  They order in everything, and never enter anywhere remotely near their own neighborhood.

Edited to make this more clear.

 

Edited by Zorral

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