Minor Blunders?

[TheLastWolf]

Minor Blunders 1

 

We know it was Tyrion who plotted the whole thing and sent Arys along.

 

 AFFC Arys excerpt (Couldn’t find the Tyrion POV excerpt that mentioned choosing Arys).

 

“ When Tyrion had chosen him to go with Myrcella to Dorne, he lit a candle to the Warrior in thanks.”

 

Why not another KG knight?

 

·         Arys wasn’t exceptional in either wits (ask Arianne) nor sword (ask Areo Hotah) enough to be worthy enough a knight of the KG to protect Myrcella. Darkstar….

·         Aron Santagar (Dornish) killed in KL riots news must have reached Dorne before Arys and Myrcella. KG failure, simmering hatred.  And to add to it all, House Oakheart already has a centuries-long enmity with Dorne.

.

The Dornish garb was comfortable, but his father would have been aghast had he lived to see his son so dressed. He was a man of the Reach, and the Dornish were his ancient foes, as the tapestries at Old Oak bore witness. Arys only had to close his eyes to see them still. Lord Edgerran the Open-Handed, seated in splendor with the heads of a hundred Dornishmen piled round his feet. The Three Leaves in the Prince’s Pass, pierced by Dornish spears, Alester sounding his warhorn with his last breath. Ser Olyvar the Green Oak all in white, dying at the side of the Young Dragon. Dorne is no fit place for any Oakheart.

 

Other options;

                       

·         Jaime – prisoner

·         Hound – Joff’s dog before going rogue after Blackwater Bay fires

·         Blount – dismissed temporarily

·         No Kettleblacks yet

·         Barri B off to Dany

·         Meryn Trant – In Tyrion’s shoes (tiny as they are), another Janos Slynt. But still…

·         Mandon Moore – Probably Varys’s creature along with Pod (tongue tied little bird) to attempt to kill Tyrion and fake death and sow discord between Lannister siblings (as suspicion on Cersei), like with the Gardner gold coins under Rugen’s (Varys) cell and Taena’s story about Olenna’s hoard. Or maybe LF’s creature since from Vale and really dead (courtesy good Pod) and pave way for Kettleblacks. Or everything is really as it appears to be and Moore was vile kinslaying (attempted) Cersei’s catspaw. I’ll go with LF/Varys tho.                                                                                                                                        …      Anyway, Tyrion didn’t know or suspect Moore’s treachery then (IIRC). So why not him to Dorne?                             

·         Preston Greenfield – Dead eyes gave nothing away; so great fighter. Wouldn’t have been the KG knight to die if he was sent to Dorne. No reason to suspect treachery.

[The Young Maester]

Oakheart was the kingsguard knight that got along the most with myrcella. 

[Lord Lannister]

I always thought it was as simple as Tyrion was fond of Myrcella and Arys was the most reliable choice out of those available.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

Tyrion wanted to reward Arys for not being a dick?

[Daemon The Black Dragon]

Tyrion probably thinks he's the best option available. Not a great group to chose from tbh. 

[TheLastWolf]

53 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Tyrion wanted to reward Arys for not being a dick?

He was. A dick I mean. Arys. Beat Sansa under Joff's orders. Felt bad slightly only once afterwards while with Arianne. He is a dimwit servant. An OK knight, but doesn't deserve KG post. Only his birth got him that. Mediocre wits and slightly better swordsmanship. Chivalry, we saw in Sansa's case. Pfft

[Alyn Oakenfist]

1 hour ago, TheLastWolf said:

He was. A dick I mean. Arys. Beat Sansa under Joff's orders. Felt bad slightly only once afterwards while with Arianne. He is a dimwit servant. An OK knight, but doesn't deserve KG post. Only his birth got him that. Mediocre wits and slightly better swordsmanship. Chivalry, we saw in Sansa's case. Pfft

To be fair, there wasn't that much he could do in that situation. The Hound was the only one who didn't do it due to Joff knowing he shouldn't fuck with him. Everbody else had to do as he ordered or else

[Canon Claude]

8 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Preston Greenfield – Dead eyes gave nothing away; so great fighter. Wouldn’t have been the KG knight to die if he was sent to Dorne. No reason to suspect treachery.

Mandon Moore had the dead eyes, not Preston. Preston is basically a non entity, neither an exceptional warrior or a good man, doomed to die early and leave little impression compared to everyone else.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

The current KG crop is trash and Arys Oakheart was the least trash of them. I'm pretty sure he would have died for Myrcella if it came to it. The others, not so much. 

[corbon]

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

The current KG crop is trash and Arys Oakheart was the least trash of them. I'm pretty sure he would have died for Myrcella if it came to it. The others, not so much. 

This, but also because he's from the Reach, so not only less likely to corrupted by Cersei or Littlefinger and also less likely to fall in league with any Dornish plotting.

[Universal Sword Donor]

3 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

To be fair, there wasn't that much he could do in that situation. The Hound was the only one who didn't do it due to Joff knowing he shouldn't fuck with him. Everbody else had to do as he ordered or else

He could have refused. There's always a choice. 

[Alyn Oakenfist]

1 minute ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

2 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

To be fair, there wasn't that much he could do in that situation. The Hound was the only one who didn't do it due to Joff knowing he shouldn't fuck with him. Everbody else had to do as he ordered or else

He could have refused. There's always a choice. 

That's not a choice anybody would make. Really there are only 2 options. Either do as you are bid or Kingslaying. And people still think Jaime was not a noble character

[Universal Sword Donor]

1 hour ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

That's not a choice anybody would make. Really there are only 2 options. Either do as you are bid or Kingslaying. And people still think Jaime was not a noble character

If only there were another character in a similar role who gave a 3rd option. 

[Alyn Oakenfist]

1 minute ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

If only there were another character in a similar role who gave a 3rd option. 

Sorry, it's very late here and my brain is not properly functioning, who are you referring to?

[Universal Sword Donor]

1 hour ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Sorry, it's very late here and my brain is not properly functioning, who are you referring to?

The Hound. Joffrey can hardly kill Arys in front of the court when the Hound refuses to do the exact same thing. Arys is used by GRRM to show that the white shining knights can be false as villains. He's an unprincipled coward who was afraid to stand up for what mattered and got himself killed when he couldn't live with it.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

Just now, Universal Sword Donor said:

The Hound. Joffrey can hardly kill Arys in front of the court when the Hound refuses to do the exact same thing. Arys is used by GRRM to show that the white shining knights can be false as villains. He's an unprincipled coward who was afraid to stand up for what mattered and got himself killed when he couldn't live with it.

Joffrey fears, nay knows that the Hound will gut him in such a context, so it's an extension of one of those 2 choices

[CamiloRP]

12 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Joffrey fears, nay knows that the Hound will gut him in such a context, so it's an extension of one of those 2 choices

Joffrey has as big a reason to fear Clegane as he has for fearing Arys.

On a 1v1 thing, Joff is toast.

On a 1vJoff's actual power, both Clegane and Oakheart are toast

[Universal Sword Donor]

1 hour ago, CamiloRP said:

Joffrey has as big a reason to fear Clegane as he has for fearing Arys.

On a 1v1 thing, Joff is toast.

On a 1vJoffs actual power, both Clegane and Oakheart are toast

Basically this. Plus, ya know, Cersei or Tyrion would theoretically be able to intervene if Joff ordered his KG to be executed or thrown in jail. Arys was just to much of a coward or too much an asshole to dare him to do it.

[CamiloRP]

I've actually just seen a great soviet film about this sort of thing, it's called The Ascent and it proposes a similar question with no clear answer. I personally think Arys isn't particularly bad for doing what he did, despite there being a better choice, it's a symptom of how the sociaty we (and Westerosi) live in works, egoism is encouraged, so even if you don't beat the defenseless girl, you'll die (or get fired) and someone else will, is it worth it to get killed if you're not preventing anything? couldn't you have beaten the girl less brutally and therefore make things better? If we all could know that no one else would do it things would be different, but we can't. (the internet helps, and it's, IMHO, a big reason why humanity has distanced itself from some unethical behaviors, we can see people from all around the world going the 'extra mile' and being more ethical, so we are encouraged to do so as well, hoping we all do it some day)

Ps: eat the rich, all power to all the people,etc, etc

[Lord Lannister]

4 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

The current KG crop is trash and Arys Oakheart was the least trash of them. I'm pretty sure he would have died for Myrcella if it came to it. The others, not so much. 

He pretty much did.