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What was the point of no return for Cersei?

Alyn Oakenfist

By Alyn Oakenfist,
in General (ASoIaF)

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Sigella Council Member

Sigella

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I'm convinced her sould kind of rotted from the guilt that came from feeling relieved when her mother died before Joanna told Tywin about the twincest. (which was how it was, her mother was told by servant and told them if you do it again I will tell your father but then she died and they took it back up)

Imagine a child grippling with "I felt relieved when my mom died so I must be evil". Abusing a baby brother and pushing someone in a well seems a pretty natural escalation and I don't think would've happened if her mothers death hadn't gotten that guilt-wrench thrown into it.

 

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TheLastWolf Council Member

TheLastWolf

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On 11/5/2020 at 12:19 PM, TheLastWolf said:

 

 

 

She killed her mother to hide her incest with Jaime. We know Joanna found out. Tyrion got the blame, poor guy. So serial killing started at 6.

Or maybe Tywin killed Joanna as Aerys was the father of Tyrion. Lot of circumstantial evidence in text for both. But crackpotty i guess

 

You know what? Cersei didn’t become Cruella Dracula (nee DeVill) at 10 (Melara) or even 6(Joanna). She was one before she even entered her mother’s womb. Well, en route anyway. She killed all the other millions of Tywin’s sperm. Left Jaime alone for carnal reasons. Struck me when I was reading Cersei in Feast. About how “tens of thousands of icky sticky princes perished in her hands and mouth”. Referred to ..er..umm…the BJs and Hjs given to Robert. Besides Cersei is Margaery’s mother-in-law. Which can also be written as Woman Hitler. Ironic/Fitting, since she committed genocide to all those sperm (before and after birth)

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Angel Eyes Council Member

Angel Eyes

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Two points of no return:

Throwing Melara down a well because a) she thought the prophecy wouldn't come true if people didn't know about it and b) Melara expressed some desire for Jaime.

Deciding she's going to have sex with Jaime when her marriage to Robert wound up on the rocks.

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Angel Eyes Council Member

Angel Eyes

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4 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Didn't she start before her marriage. I remember Jaime once saying that he slept with her on her wedding day

If they slept together on her wedding day, how did Robert not realize that? If it wasn't such a big deal Cersei wouldn't be trying to get Margaery executed on a charge of infidelity.

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frenin Council Member

frenin

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35 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

If they slept together on her wedding day, how did Robert not realize that? If it wasn't such a big deal Cersei wouldn't be trying to get Margaery executed on a charge of infidelity.

Just as he didn't realize the times they had sex with him lying next to them. He was passed out drunk.

It is a big deal, just as incest is, they just didn't think they would get caught. 

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talvikorppi Noble

talvikorppi

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I think Cersei was a sociopath, a psychopath in waiting all along. The baby Tyrion incident, her daring Jaime to put his hand in the lion's gage in the CR menangerie, her killing Melara for daring to fancy Jaime... She's been a bad 'un all along.

Joffrey's death probably pushed her over the edge. Losing Jaime, who no longer looks like her, doesn't want to go along with her schemes, rumours of the ugly Tarth woman, it all pushes her further.

Lot of meaning, message has been about how Cersei loves her children. I'd say her "love" for the children is entirely narcissistic. They're products of her and her male self. She thinks she owns them, or rather, thinks they're avatars of herself. So should do what she wants.

She doesn't even know her younger children. She lavished her attention and "love" on Joffrey. She doesn't know Myrcella is very intelligent and brave, she doesn't know Tommen is a kind and righteous little person. She berates Tommen for not being like Joffrey, fgs! At least uncle-dad Jaime is trying to be kind and understanding, giving some advice ("Go away inside.") before Cersei just crushes Tommen. Because he, her meal ticket, might not do her bidding.

Jaime hasn't exactly been dad of the year, but with Tommen, he's trying, as an uncle. Cersei won't allow it, she wants to have total control of the young king. Nothing about mother's love, all about her power plays.

As to when Cersei's PONR happened... Difficult question. She's been a sociopath, a psychopath, for years, but I think Joffrey's death, then Tywin's death really pushed her over the edge. It was compounded by her estrangement from Jaime.

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The Bard of Banefort Council Member

The Bard of Banefort

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I think the most damning thing about Cersei is probably that she feels no remorse. Melara was her only childhood friend aside from Jaime, and she pushed her down a well and watched her drown. If Cersei had felt some remorse for that, then she could have at least begun to redeem herself. The closest we get is during her Walk of Shame, when she starts to hallucinate Melara, Ned, and Sansa and Lady. But as soon as she's back indoors she forgets all about that and immediately begins to focus on revenge. 

So when all's said and done, Cersei's true character was probably revealed with Melara's murder, when they were both still children. 

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