Impmk2 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 minute ago, IheartIheartTesla said: Biden saying he flipped Arizona - does he know something we dont? Fox and AP have called Arizona for Biden. Theres some indication that might be premature, but it's definitely an uphill for Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 The BBC reporting that Trump's lead in Pennsylvania just dropped by 70,000. He's now 343,000 ahead with 84% of the vote counted, with most of the remaining vote left on early ballots which is skewing heavily to Biden. Pennsylvania's vote path now looking similar to Wisconsin and Michigan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 I'm confused. What exactly is the idea of Biden going out to say "I'm not declaring myself the winner, but I declare we will be the winners." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Impmk2 said: Fox and AP have called Arizona for Biden. Theres some indication that might be premature, but it's definitely an uphill for Trump. Yeah, by the standards of today's campaigning, if anybody has officially called the state for you, you're going to claim you've won it. WI, MI and AZ are all called by at least some news orgs as being in Biden's favor. That (along with NE-2) gives Biden 270, assuming that AZ and NV don't fall apart. In addition, voter counters like Nate Cohn seem increasingly bullish about Biden's chances in PA. The results he's seen thus far continue to tell the story that he'll get the win once all ballots are counted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 I guess we will win is different to we have won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 CNN calls MI for Biden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Biden is winning the NPV by 3 million! and still no one can be confident he will be president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudguard Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 After a grim night, it's looking very good for Biden now. I don't think any of Trump's desperate legal tactics is going to work. He's just wasting his supporters money and making the lawyers richer. I'm lukewarm about Biden, but Harris as the first woman VP is historic. I hope they prosecute Trump's ass. I've been thinking that Trump will leave the country to avoid prosecution, since he can't pardon his way out of all the state legal actions that will be ready to be filed the moment we boot his ass out of the White House. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Toth said: I'm confused. What exactly is the idea of Biden going out to say "I'm not declaring myself the winner, but I declare we will be the winners." Declaring victory before the networks have called every state for you is dangerous for democracy. BUT, Biden wants to indicate that he's on the path to winning, to combat Trump's claims of the election being "stolen". 3 minutes ago, DaveSumm said: I guess we will win is different to we have won. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollygag Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Can't keep up with this thread so not sure if it's been brought up. On polls, I don't doubt some are lying, but it doesn't make sense that they're doing so to the degree it explains the results. Hyping lying to polls smells suspiciously like Russian crap trying to erode faith in the system. You end up suppressing enthusiasm, donations and volunteerism for your own side. And as the GOP and Trump polls were showing the same thing, they're lying to the GOP and Trump, too. It makes more sense that most of the discrepancy is factored more in people not being honest with themselves (and thus the pollsters), Republicans "coming home" which means their fear-ruled lizard brain kicked in at the last minute, and as half of Republicans to some degree now believe in QAnon, I'm not sure how you poll crazy. Kinda like trying to apply logic to Wonderland and wondering why that didn't work out. ------------------------------------------------------------------- As to the ballots in Post Office limbo, in shipping, there's legal terms of possession that basically say the receiver owns the product at the moment it leaves the sender's possession (most common and preferred by senders) or that it's in the legal possession of the sender until it arrives at its destination. In freight, the product never belongs to the shipping company. I have no idea what terms and conditions the Post Office uses, but if possession is point of origin, then the case can be made that the Board of Elections are legally in possession of the ballots once they are given to the PO thus are countable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 17 minutes ago, Werthead said: Not understanding this logic. Biden's ahead. They stop the vote now, Biden gets declared the winner by default on Nevada-Arizona-Wisconsin-Michigan. Trump saving Pennsylvania is irrelevant. The logic is he wants to stop the counting only in Pennsylvania. ETA: Well in Georgia and NC too I guess. Anywhere he's leading, that's the logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, Toth said: I'm confused. What exactly is the idea of Biden going out to say "I'm not declaring myself the winner, but I declare we will be the winners." He's clarifying that he's not doing what Trump did and actually fradulently calling a win, but nonetheless putting himself out there to counter Trump's narrative. Which is I think precisely what he needs to be doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, Sci-2 said: CNN calls MI for Biden. Welcome back, btw! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 45 minutes ago, DMC said: I think this is a fair point and hard to argue with in theory. However, it's a two-way street. The left needs to stop cannibalizing any compelling candidate that does not tightly fit their orthodoxy - like Harris, Buttigieg, and Booker in the primary and even Warren at the end. Some of the hardest of hard-core Bernie folks need to get on board with the idea that there are just some things that have to be done incrementally. The idea of shifting straight to the hard left on everything is such a third party in the Presidential Election move. Find that happy medium nationally now, be it the Bookers or Buttigiegs of the world and concentrate on the state and local levels grooming your next Squad members to have them ready to go when the time is right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, DMC said: The logic is he wants to stop the counting only in Pennsylvania. Good luck with that, not to mention the fact that Pennsylvania is not required for victory, it's just great to put a lot of air between them. The BBC interviewing a polling official who says that the Republicans can mount legal challenges, call for recounts etc, but they can only do that once the vote has been certified, otherwise they're appealing an unknown. Pennsylvania can still go Trump anyway, although the BBC reporting Trump's lead has just fallen to 320,000 with over a million votes still in the bag. Biden's lead in Michigan is starting to extend. It's gone over 61,000, which I think carries it out of the recount range. Will have to double check that. Biden's lead in Nevada also starting to pull out of the recount range. The BBC and CBS now confirming that Michigan has gone for Biden. I think they were the last hold-outs so that's in the bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Jaxom 1974 said: Find that happy medium nationally now, be it the Bookers or Buttigiegs of the world and concentrate on the state and local levels grooming your next Squad members to have them ready to go when the time is right... And maybe don't make it personal when the majority of allies pick someone else. Democracy is a team event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Jaxom 1974 said: Some of the hardest of hard-core Bernie folks need to get on board with the idea that there are just some things that have to be done incrementally. The idea of shifting straight to the hard left on everything is such a third party in the Presidential Election move. How dare you, of all people, say this. May your Cubs have another hundred years of shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingintheNorth4 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Red mirage indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionAhaiReborn Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 I think it's absolutely bizarre that people have looked at the results of this election and found their way to left-bashing. Biden was the most centrist option available as Presidential nominee. Where Democrats have apparently under performed in Senate races- Maine, NC, MI, you could throw Montana in there- the candidates nominated were also moderates. None of them supported, for instance, Medicare for all. Claiming the problem is that the Democratic Party went too far left is completely baffling. ETA: And left voters, if that's who we're looking to punch, appear to have very much come back to the Democratic Party this cycle, with extremely high turnout and an exceptionally low vote share for the Green Party candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: How dare you, of all people, say this. May your Cubs have another hundred years of shame. Wait. Were you for Jo Jorgensen??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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