UK Politics - Not a Special Relationship

[Heartofice]

8 hours ago, ants said:

In Australia, the right wing party is called the Liberal party!  Historically the liberals and the right were aligned, although the right dominates moreso now days.  

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-10658070

I mean what does Liberal even mean? It doesn't seem to mean the same thing in the US and the UK. 

22 minutes ago, Maltaran said:

I see it’s time for the annual Fairytale of New York censorship complaints again.

I call for it to banned purely due to over-use and the trend of people trying to look edgy and cool by saying its the best xmas song ever.

[mormont]

1 hour ago, Maltaran said:

I see it’s time for the annual Fairytale of New York censorship complaints again.

 

[Derfel Cadarn]

5 minutes ago, mormont said:

 

Was just about to post about professional arsehole Laurence Fox’s ‘outrage’ and the Pogues’ response.

[Heartofice]

I'm normally against these PC bans on language, but I don't see any argument against cutting out the offensive word. I mean I was amazed it was in there even 20 years ago. It's obviously a pretty offensive slur and you wouldn't expect it to be on the BBC, I mean they regularly cut out offensive lyrics from other songs. Really not a big deal. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

21 hours ago, Maltaran said:

If he’d overruled the NEC he’d get in trouble for political interference in the disciplinary process which is one of the problems the EHRC had with the party in their report. If he’d let Corbyn back in the PLP then apparently at least one Jewish MP would have quit.

To get back into the Corbyn debate.

Starmer wouldn't just ahve upset the Jewish community. He would've lost credibility wrt his efforts to tackle anti-semitism and he would have looked weak as a party leader.

The NEC had put Starmer in an impossible position. They should've never let Corbyn back in at that moment. The stupid old geezer just had one job when the HERC report came out. Accept the finding, apologize and say that he felt sorry for the pain he may have caused with his handling of anti-semitism in Labour, and that he underestimated the size and gravity of the problem. Then everybody could've moved on.

But no, that senile charlatan had to make it about himself, and claim it was overblown and used as a weapon against his leadership.

[Fragile Bird]

News here in Canada says that there will be a Canada-UK trade agreement by the end of the year. So some good news?

[ljkeane]

I had to go into Wales for work today and I'd forgotten they were out of lockdown now. A bit of a shock to the system. We really should just have a consistent UK wide policy on what we're doing with coronavirus restrictions. It can't help to have a hodgepodge of different rules.

[dog-days]

I live in Wales and don't find it terribly complicated to follow the rules. Am much happier with Mark Drakeford as head of government than Boris. 

[Maltaran]

2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I'm normally against these PC bans on language, but I don't see any argument against cutting out the offensive word. I mean I was amazed it was in there even 20 years ago. It's obviously a pretty offensive slur and you wouldn't expect it to be on the BBC, I mean they regularly cut out offensive lyrics from other songs. Really not a big deal. 

Also, it’s only radio 1 censoring it, radio 2 is playing it unaltered. Perhaps Fox doesn’t want to admit he’s old enough to be listening to radio 2 now?

[Denvek]

4 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I'm normally against these PC bans on language, but I don't see any argument against cutting out the offensive word. I mean I was amazed it was in there even 20 years ago. It's obviously a pretty offensive slur and you wouldn't expect it to be on the BBC, I mean they regularly cut out offensive lyrics from other songs. Really not a big deal. 

The Pogues were using different lyrics as early as 1992

[The Anti-Targ]

I guess some people don't understand the difference between govt censorship and corporate censorship. One is a curtailment of freedom of speech, the other the exercise of freedom of speech. People may exercise their freedom of association by deciding whether or not to give ear-time to corporate bodies who use their freedom of speech in ways they don't approved.

[A wilding]

That said, the BBC is not exactly a corporation in that sense. It is basically a state backed institution, so it does have to be careful.

[ants]

13 hours ago, Heartofice said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-10658070

I mean what does Liberal even mean? It doesn't seem to mean the same thing in the US and the UK. 

At least in Australia, a liberal is someone who believes in individual and business rights, and generally therefore less government intervention.  They generally stand with progressives on individual rights for minorities, abortion, etc., but with the right on business and are against policies such as affirmative action.  They are against government schemes such as workers compensation and CTP insurance.  They are generally more pro-immigration than the right.  Pro-education.  

But then, there isn't really a "left" party in Australian politics.  There is a pro-worker party that is generally pretty socially conservative (and doesn't push any socialist like policies), a greens party which is small but progressive, and a right wing party that covers both liberals and conservatives.  Both the major parties have lots of internal feuds (liberals vs. conservatives in one, social conservatives vs. progressives in the other).  

[mormont]

Meanwhile in outstanding classic Tory governance:

We'll be spending billions on shiny new boats but on the same day the government announced that sadly they couldn't find a few million to continue a provably successful anti-homophobic bullying campaign.

This really could not be more of a caricature (and yet a wholly accurate one) of the people we have running the country. Bombastic puffery about Brittania ruling the waves on the one hand, 'sorry gay people you'll just have to put up with being bullied, there's no money' on the other. Vile.

And speaking of bullying, expect Priti Patel to be tutted at later, but allowed to keep her job. There are already Tory MPs hitting the media circuit to explain how bullying civil servants is actually OK and Priti is a decent sort to people who might be useful to her so clearly it's all a fuss over nothing despite her long track record of being a shit to anyone who she thinks is beneath her.

[Derfel Cadarn]

Also talk of freezong public sector pay, possibly including NHS staff.

On one hand I can see why they might do it, given the private sector hammering. On the other, the public sector spent most of the last decade with no or 1% pay rises due to the last financial crisis.

And to do it to doctors and nurses eho’ve borne the brunt of this pandemic is cruel, given many have died, or chosen to go weeks/months without seeing their families for fear of exposing them. While having to use substandard ppe provided by companies owned by Tories or their donors at substantial cost to the NHS.

Maybe the MP’s could take a pay freeze?

My wife’s dept (neurological) largely escaped covid during the first wave, but they’re less lucky this time.

Oh, and apparently one reason (apart from capacity) there isn’t mass testing of NHS workers is that the fear is they’d identify so many as positive but asymptomatic that NHS Scotland would collapse if they had to send them all home for the quarantine period. Problem is, they can still spread it.

[Werthead]

Whilst the UK is not at Trumpian levels of incompetent insanity just yet, the current government has taken his lead on ignoring political norms built up over decades. Multiple problems that would have been automatic resigning issues in the past for any government minister official pre-2010 are now completely ignored, the government believing it'll only be a few days before something shoves it off the headlines and then it's business as normal. The convention that we expect the highest possibly standards of behaviour and ethics from government officials seems to have been completely disregarded.

It also doesn't help that the government has run out of even vaguely competent personnel. Patel is awful at her job, but they don't seem to have many immediately obvious candidates available to take over, and I suspect a growing number of lesser-known, next-generation MPs wanting to keep their powder dry in case Boris falls and takes down all his cronies with him.

[A wilding]

Yes, this one was shockingly blatant. Another milestone, for the first time a minister who broke the ministerial code has not been returned even momentarily to the back benches (as Patel was by May the last time she broke the rules). Johnson is ignoring the report produced by his own "independent" adviser, who has has the integrity to resign over it, and has not even given Patel a slap on the wrist.

He is also refusing to allow the report to be published (though it has been widely leaked) on the grounds that "there is no full report, just a collection of evidence containing witness statements". So he claims it is enough of a report to exonerate Patel and damn those who complained about her, but not enough to actually show to anyone.

[Heartofice]

 

30 minutes ago, Werthead said:

The convention that we expect the highest possibly standards of behaviour and ethics from government officials seems to have been completely disregarded.

Can you remind me of when this was? I remember that lovely chap Alistair Campbell. 

[mormont]

So to sum up, the last couple of days; the Tory party has made clear that they are

- pro-bullying

- pro-warships

- but against better pay for medical professionals fighting a pandemic.

Remember that time when for a hot minute the Tories worried about being 'the nasty party'?

[Heartofice]

Do the Tories actually care about being perceived as the nasty party? I think most people think it is irrelevant if someone like Priti Patel is a bit of a nasty bully at work, as long as she gets the job done. Patel is generally well regarded by Tories I think, and like Alistair Campbell, are we really going to be pulling out a list of MPs who shout at their subordinates because we will be here a long time. 

The real issue is that the Tories are doing badly on the actual issues of competence and getting things done. 

(Though I noticed you missed out stuff like Boris' green agenda plan in your list of things they have done recently.. doesn't fit the narrative does it)