Mrstrategy Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 What instead of just one of manderly sons being killed in red wedding ,both have been killed leaving the freys and boltons with no manderly hostage?would manderly still support boltons and if not could manderlys hold white harbor and it's lands against bolton,freys and other pro boltons lords? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canon Claude Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Mrstrategy said: What instead of just one of manderly sons being killed in red wedding ,both have been killed leaving the freys and boltons with no manderly hostage?would manderly still support boltons and if not could manderlys hold white harbor and it's lands against bolton,freys and other pro boltons lords? Wylis was the only bit of leverage that they had over Wyman. If both his sons died, then he’d truly have nothing to lose. He’d probably fortify White Harbour and hold it. He’s got a fleet, an army, and all his family safe in White Harbour. Roose Bolton would probably have to besiege the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floki of the Ironborn Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 5 hours ago, Canon Claude said: Wylis was the only bit of leverage that they had over Wyman. If both his sons died, then he’d truly have nothing to lose. He’d probably fortify White Harbour and hold it. He’s got a fleet, an army, and all his family safe in White Harbour. Roose Bolton would probably have to besiege the city. If he did that, Roose Bolton would simply rally the loyal northmen to his cause and besiege White Harbour. Wyman's in a really good position, but open war with the Boltons, their Frey allies, and the other northmen would erode that position very quickly. Plus he'd still want to recover Rickon Stark from Skagos, and an open rebellion would draw too many eyes and ears to the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Young Maester Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 6 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said: If he did that, Roose Bolton would simply rally the loyal northmen to his cause and besiege White Harbour. Wyman's in a really good position, but open war with the Boltons, their Frey allies, and the other northmen would erode that position very quickly. Plus he'd still want to recover Rickon Stark from Skagos, and an open rebellion would draw too many eyes and ears to the city. Stannis and his clansmen will be hot on his tail. They’ll probably take winterfell if roose decides to besiege white harbour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floki of the Ironborn Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 18 minutes ago, The Young Maester said: Stannis and his clansmen will be hot on his tail. They’ll probably take winterfell if roose decides to besiege white harbour. And they wouldn't have any food. Only reason there was any food at Winterfell was because Roose and the others brought it with them. Plus, why would Stannis march to Winterfell with winter about to hit them and the castle was in complete disarray? Roose wouldn't have gone to Winterfell if the Manderlys were in open rebellion. And hell, the whole reason they went to Winterfell in the first place was because the northmen with Stannis wanted to save Arya. So they'd be forced to travel to White Harbour or wherever she\d be. Maybe Ramsay would have gotten married at the Dreadfort instead for all we know, and they'd fall into the original trap anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Young Maester Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Floki of the Ironborn said: And they wouldn't have any food. Only reason there was any food at Winterfell was because Roose and the others brought it with them. Plus, why would Stannis march to Winterfell with winter about to hit them and the castle was in complete disarray? Roose wouldn't have gone to Winterfell if the Manderlys were in open rebellion. Because its center of the north, and it can serve as a base from where he can take over the north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loose Bolt Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 As long trade routes to Essos keep open and Manderlys do not run out of cash any kind of siege of White Harbor would fail. Besides if they really have access more heavy cavalry than any other northern houses open battles with them would not be very good idea either. So in a case that both potential heirs of house Manderly would die Roose would have really huge problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sidious Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Wayman will be less inclined to cooperate but he won't openly defy Roose Bolton. To defy Roose is to make an enemy of the king. The North and their Tully allies just got their assess handed to them. Wayman, if he has any sense at all, will keep that in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canon Claude Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 7 hours ago, Prince Rhaego's Soul said: Wayman will be less inclined to cooperate but he won't openly defy Roose Bolton. To defy Roose is to make an enemy of the king. The North and their Tully allies just got their assess handed to them. Wayman, if he has any sense at all, will keep that in mind. If Wyman had lost both his boys, I daresay that he’d have just thrown caution to the wind and burned out the Boltons. We saw what happened when he got Wylis back and presumably Rickon. He gave so few f***s that he insulted the Freys to their faces even when it meant that he was nearly killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldarion Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Canon Claude said: If Wyman had lost both his boys, I daresay that he’d have just thrown caution to the wind and burned out the Boltons. We saw what happened when he got Wylis back and presumably Rickon. He gave so few f***s that he insulted the Freys to their faces even when it meant that he was nearly killed. Keep in mind however that that part happened when a) he was in Winterfell, with many men who were presumably only loyal to Boltons because of lack of altetnative and b) with Stannis nearby (he knew Stannis is in North from Ser Davos). So he has few more options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canon Claude Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Aldarion said: Keep in mind however that that part happened when a) he was in Winterfell, with many men who were presumably only loyal to Boltons because of lack of altetnative and b) with Stannis nearby (he knew Stannis is in North from Ser Davos). So he has few more options. But that’s my point. Wyman is very smart and while he is very good at being tactful and cautious, it only lasts until he calculates that he has the advantage, even if nobody else realises it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldarion Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Canon Claude said: But that’s my point. Wyman is very smart and while he is very good at being tactful and cautious, it only lasts until he calculates that he has the advantage, even if nobody else realises it. But in a situation you described he will not have had the advantage; very much the opposite. Question is quite different from the in-book situation. In the books, it is a question of a strategic disadvantage / advantage. In your scenario he is at a disadvantage one way or another; question becomes whether losing both sons would turn him so set on revenge he goes sucidal and throws caution to the wind. It is a possibility for sure, but I do not think one can be used as evidence for another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Ice-Eyes Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 A siege of white harbour by Roose would be a disaster. White harbour still has men to man the walls so storming it would cost thousands of lives, a prolonged siege in winter is out of the question and he can’t starve the city because Wyman has the northern fleet to keep supplies coming into the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 OP Valar Morghulis Freys and Boltons. Lannisters please wait. The list is quite big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sidious Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 On 11/9/2020 at 9:41 AM, Canon Claude said: If Wyman had lost both his boys, I daresay that he’d have just thrown caution to the wind and burned out the Boltons. We saw what happened when he got Wylis back and presumably Rickon. He gave so few f***s that he insulted the Freys to their faces even when it meant that he was nearly killed. If he's that kind of guy then he will do poorly in the game of thrones. That's a lack of discipline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canon Claude Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, Prince Rhaego's Soul said: If he's that kind of guy then he will do poorly in the game of thrones. That's a lack of discipline. I don’t think he’s planning on living through the winter. He’s got his son back and safe in White Harbour, along with the rest of his surviving family, his house is in a really good position regarding military and resources, and he’s done his part to help Stannis and the Starks to win. All that’s left is to bring the Boltons and Frey’s down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 On 11/7/2020 at 4:29 PM, Mrstrategy said: What instead of just one of manderly sons being killed in red wedding ,both have been killed leaving the freys and boltons with no manderly hostage?would manderly still support boltons and if not could manderlys hold white harbor and it's lands against bolton,freys and other pro boltons lords? Nothing. There would be some other reason for wyman to meet with Davos and the story would carry on as written Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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