US Politics 47 - Biden Time (To Be Litigious)

[Sci-2]

13 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Who the hell is saying Kasich won the election for Biden? He couldn't even win Ohio for Biden.

Yeah I don't get her complaint there. I'd also be wary of lumping black organizers in with a general "PoC" effort in terms of actual political views.

I've seen plenty of black people who  dislike the "Squad" along with Bernie, and don't think Leftist policy is necessarily good for the black community. And of course I've seen the exact opposite. No group is a monolith.

I think a lot of people helped Biden win the Presidency, and unlike [certain elements of the] Left many of them didn't try to destroy him with accusations of dementia among other things.

[Larry of the Lawn]

6 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Who the hell is saying Kasich won the election for Biden? He couldn't even win Ohio for Biden.

they've stopped short of those literal words but Spanberger, Clyburn, and others have been blaming Dem loses in the house on the squad and the phrase 'defunding the police'.

[DMC]

6 minutes ago, Denvek said:

Given that dead people can be elected in the US anyway (see that guy in North Dakota who died of Covid) surely they can vote for Biden & Harris anyway and then Harris would become President as per what you said about the 20th.

Yeah like I said it shouldn't be controversial at all to instruct the electors to vote for Harris, I just don't trust this court.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

AOC did not say that anyone was claiming John Kasich specifically won Biden the election.

 

She responded to this question:

"What if the administration is hostile? If they take the John Kasich view of who Joe Biden should be? What do you do?"

With:

"Well, I’d be bummed, because we’re going to lose. And that’s just what it is. These transition appointments, they send a signal. They tell a story of who the administration credits with this victory. And so it’s going be really hard after immigrant youth activists helped potentially deliver Arizona and Nevada. It’s going to be really hard after Detroit and Rashida Tlaib ran up the numbers in her district.

It’s really hard for us to turn out nonvoters when they feel like nothing changes for them. When they feel like people don’t see them, or even acknowledge their turnout.

If the party believes after 94 percent of Detroit went to Biden, after Black organizers just doubled and tripled turnout down in Georgia, after so many people organized Philadelphia, the signal from the Democratic Party is the John Kasichs won us this election? I mean, I can’t even describe how dangerous that is."

 

She's saying if Biden goes down the road of making moderate appointments and governing the way John Kasich has publicly advocated he should, it will signal his belief that the "John Kasichs"- ie a type of moderate Republican, not the man himself- won Biden the election, which would be a mistake. 

Biden hasn't done this yet, although there are obviously voices in the party that believe he should go this route. 

[Mindwalker]

22 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Who the hell is saying Kasich won the election for Biden? He couldn't even win Ohio for Biden.

He's been on tv, together with the pundits, all saying this election "clearly" shows that the American people don't want that extreme stuff (I'm paraphrasing) or Sanders in the cabinet etc. pretty much right after the election was called. Morning Joe dude, too. That's what I mean when I say that the influence of Republica neverTrumpists in this election might be overestimated. (While it can be argued that the results for Congress support their conclusion.) Anyway, I think we'll have to wait for esearch on this, exit polls being unreliable.

Anyway, that stuff is basically what AOC and others s strongly react to.

 

[Zorral]

2 hours ago, Mindwalker said:

I'm just watching an interesting German panel discussion about the election (Presseclub). One of them puts into words my fears: The R know they will always be the minority, which is why they've been applying a scorched earth strategy for a long time.  McConnell will try to divide the D's: He'll make some deals/ compromises with Biden that will skew heavily Republcan, thus alienating the liberal/ prrogressive wing of the Dems.

PS: Why am I surprised T wants "concessions"?! Of course he would and I hope he won't get any substantial ones. Actually I hope he won't get any.

As the twitter posted in the previous thread:

 

Quote

“The president is willing to concede if certain conditions are met,” says Rick Santorum on CNN...

I mean really, who the eff does he think he is?  Robert E. Lee?  And that didn't work at Appomatox either.  It was unconditional surrender.  Even so Grant made the gigantic error of giving Lee back his ceremonial West Point sword, his horses, and his men, and their weapons and their horses.  So in their minds there was no driving down Dixie at all. The South  White Supremacy and Hate Shall Rise Again. And boy did it ever, in about 2 seconds.

 

[Kalbear]

 

[Martell Spy]

Biden keeps Nevada blue
The Democrat secured Nevada's six electoral votes after becoming the president-elect.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/07/nevada-presidential-election-results-2020-433400

Quote

 

Joe Biden won Nevada over President Donald Trump, securing six electoral votes in a battleground that has been a key piece of Democrats’ electoral map in four straight presidential elections.

Nevada was a top retention target for Democrats after the 2016 election, when the state voted for Hillary Clinton by a slim 2-point margin as Trump won the White House.

 

 

[Raja]

It was an interview in the NYT though..

[Mindwalker]

6 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

I think far too much weight is given to AOC and her pronouncements on Twitter.

Thankfully she's not the only one pushing against this narrative and the attempt to drag Biden/ Harris even further right even before they started. Even on the network (I think NBC), there was a democrat stessing party unity and being careful of who comes into the tent or something like that. (I'm horrible with names! Yesterday, via Zoom, youngish, black, very blue suit.)

I would think the message of unity and integration would be meant for the progressives in their own party, too, but what do I know.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Relic said:

Will Giuliani find anything? Will the GOP grow some testicles? Will Trump stop tweeting?

 

Find out next season on "America" 

He'll probably get banned shortly after he's out, but have his tweets been funny in the last few days? I haven't bothered looking.

[Raja]

I thought the DNC not being helpful to her was interesting though, from the NYT interview. Found that to be the more interesting bits from it - the stuff about Conor Lamb was quite amusing.

[Fragile Bird]

15 minutes ago, Zorral said:

As the twitter posted in the previous thread:

 

I mean really, who the eff does he think he is?  Robert E. Lee?  And that didn't work at Appomatox either.  It was unconditional surrender.  Even so Grant made the gigantic error of giving Lee back his ceremonial West Point sword, his horses, and his men, and their weapons and their horses.  So in their minds there was no driving down Dixie at all. The South  White Supremacy and Hate Shall Rise Again. And boy did it ever, in about 2 seconds.

 

I think you and others are jumping on the word conditions as if it means he’s setting conditions. Conditions means the recounts are held and the votes remain the same, and the allegations of fraud are heard.

I keep hearing Republicans say that it’s not unreasonable when the vote is so close to demand a recount, but I don’t know of any recount in North American that changed more than a couple of hundred votes, if that many, let alone 10,000. As for allegations of fraud, all the courts have asked for evidence and nobody has shown up with any. But Trump has the right to those recounts and the he has the right to allege impropriety, he just had to show up with the evidence, which he won’t.

[Fragile Bird]

31 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

He's been on tv, together with the pundits, all saying this election "clearly" shows that the American people don't want that extreme stuff (I'm paraphrasing) or Sanders in the cabinet etc. pretty much right after the election was called. Morning Joe dude, too. That's what I mean when I say that the influence of Republica neverTrumpists in this election might be overestimated. (While it can be argued that the results for Congress support their conclusion.) Anyway, I think we'll have to wait for esearch on this, exit polls being unreliable.

Anyway, that stuff is basically what AOC and others s strongly react to.

 

So what? Every time there’s been a fight to end the death penalty somewhere people have shown up saying the people don’t want it. Everywhere we’ve seen the fight for same sex marriage somebody was on tv saying the people don’t want it. Change is hard.

[Larry of the Lawn]

Here's Ryan Grim on the left/center tension (and in depth stuff on the get out the vote effort in the Midwest).  Fair warning it is predictably more favorable to the progressives.

https://theintercept.com/2020/11/06/election-biden-democrats-progressives/

 

[Mindwalker]

7 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I think you and others are jumping on the word conditions as if it means he’s setting conditions. Conditions means the recounts are held and the votes remain the same, and the allegations of fraud are heard.

I keep hearing Republicans say that it’s not unreasonable when the vote is so close to demand a recount, but I don’t know of any recount in North American that changed more than a couple of hundred votes, if that many, let alone 10,000. As for allegations of fraud, all the courts have asked for evidence and nobody has shown up with any. But Trump has the right to those recounts and the he has the right to allege impropriety, he just had to show up with the evidence, which he won’t.

Maybe, but I really think we might be underestimating his pathology. This may well be the first time that he lost... anywhere and neither (hopefully) connections nor money nor threats can undo it. I think his ego demands more "satisfaction" I hope I'm wrong and anyway, he won't be able to give a real concession speech even if he tried. (Too threatening.)

Quote

So what? Every time there’s been a fight to end the death penalty somewhere people have shown up saying the people don’t want it. Everywhere we’ve seen the fight for same sex marriage somebody was on tv saying the people don’t want it. Change is hard.

Oh sure. I just don't get the hate of some people here (not you) against progs who try to correct that narrative and push for change.

[DMC]

3 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

Fair warning it is predictably more favorable to the progressives.

I'm shocked!!!

[Mindwalker]

The horror!

[Fragile Bird]

48 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

they've stopped short of those literal words but Spanberger, Clyburn, and others have been blaming Dem loses in the house on the squad and the phrase 'defunding the police'.

I heard the interview on CNN this morning with Clyburn saying defund the police is this generation’s burn baby burn and I agree with him. I think up here in Canada we have absolutely failed to create alternatives to the police that can deal with mental health calls, many of which end up with police shooting and killing a guy who needs a doctor, not a bullet. From what I see on tv that’s often the situation in the US as well.

Using “defund the police” is the wrong slogan. If you can run an American community, or city, or state, or the country, without a police force, I’ve yet to see any evidence of it. That communities have created alternate support services I have seen, and they didn’t get rid of the police at the same time. But Trump and the Republicans really used that phrase to make gains across the country. I saw lots of interviews with voters and defund police really scared them.

[Sci-2]

20 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Using “defund the police” is the wrong slogan.

Interestingly enough, a lot of PoC have take issue with the Left's messaging - there's a feeling that predominantly white well off "cosplay socialists" are speaking over PoC.

For example:

I think we'll need more and better exit polling, among other things, to get a good sense of what helped and what hurt in terms of Trump's inroads with minority voters. But the above is being echoed among PoC, though of course people I look to on Twitter isn't a real sampling.