Larry of the Lawn Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, Lollygag said: What world do you live in? Did he cheat? Did he violate the primary process? Did he buy up all the seats on the RNC? Running for office isn't a hostile takeover of a party. Sanders didn't 'attempt a hostile takeover' anymore than Andrew Yang or Pete Buttigieg did. He just ran for president, and then campaigned for the Dem nominee both times he lost. eta: still wondering about what I could have said to you that you labelled "ad hominem". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 24 minutes ago, Sci-2 said: I do think some of her attacks on the Dems, or even aspects of the larger coalition that brought Biden to victory, is unproductive at this time. Eh. Kasich is getting on telly chiding progressives for using progressive language and urging the party to look to the right, Dem representatives are screaming at each other on internal calls that they should never use progressive terms ever again and that they nearly cost the election and cost some runners seats. She's allowed to respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollygag Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 18 minutes ago, OnionAhaiReborn said: Which was another bullshit objection. Bernie campaigned on Medicare for All but voted for the Affordable Care Act as a Senator. When he lost to Clinton, he campaigned for her. When he lost to Biden, he campaigned for him. He never advocated "one true way," this was a stance imputed to him by his critics. His refusal to try to outreach to the Black community based on their not buying into what he was selling strikes me as overly rigid adherence to a single system rather searching for pragmatic solutions. Regardless, I was hardly the only one with that impression and if you're campaigning and an impression or an attack is inaccurate, it's on you to correct that. He didn't then though I'd argue he's better on that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 Trump didn't perform a hostile take over of the Republican party, he just helped to bring all of the foul elements within it to the fore. He didn't change a single thing about the core ideology or political tactics of the party. If anything he caused those of the Lincoln Project ilk, to realise they are in a minority and begin the process of exiting the party. They are still delluded by the notion that they are the real party and they just need to get it back from the Trump-types. But they need to realise they haven't been the party for a very long time, if ever, so they need to decide whether to stay in and accept the taint they will be smeared with, or leave and try to start something new and, to them, pure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 Just now, polishgenius said: Eh. Kasich is getting on telly chiding progressives for using progressive language and urging the party to look to the right, Dem representatives are screaming at each other on internal calls that they should never use progressive terms ever again and that they nearly cost the election and cost some runners seats. She's allowed to respond. I think it's fine for her to respond, just as it's fine for others to look askance at aspects of her response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 22 minutes ago, polishgenius said: Eh. Kasich is getting on telly chiding progressives for using progressive language and urging the party to look to the right, Dem representatives are screaming at each other on internal calls that they should never use progressive terms ever again and that they nearly cost the election and cost some runners seats. She's allowed to respond. Yeah, exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 I did not know we were in primary season again. We need a circular firing squad emoji. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 Yeah. Some of these posts re: AOC are a little out there especially as the interview was a *response*. Also, this is perfectly the *right* time for her to talk about the direction of what Biden's transition period would be like, this 'wrong timing criticism seems odd to me. Before the election would be the wrong timing, not now, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollygag Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 15 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said: Divided they fall? Seems like there is a rift in the Trump family about conceding: Melania and Jared are pro-concede, Don Jr and Eric are anti-concede. I imagine Melania wants the 4 year nightmare to end. It seems like she has not enjoyed being 1st lady for a single day, though I'm sure she had some days where she enjoyed herself. Not sure what Jared's motivations are, maybe he's just a wee bit smarter than the blood relatives and knows that it's a losing battle. Don Jr and Eric may know where the skeletons are buried (well Don Jr maybe, and Eric does what Don tells him) and possibly know they might be in trouble, and Dad as president gave them their 15 minutes of fame, and they liked it (well maybe not Eric being the butt of so many Jokes, but Don Jr loved it). I'm guessing Ivanka is of a mind with Jared, and who knows, maybe she sent Jared out to voice her opinion for her. She's possibly the smartest of the lot of them, which is not necessarily saying she's objectively smart. My guess as to Don Jr and Eric is they're the biggest losers if Trump's house of cards comes down. They're young yet. I'd guess that Melania has worked things out that ensures she and Baron safe. Jared and Ivanka have their own thing. Tiffany being in Don Jr's and Eric's situation is fair theory for why we've been seeing her more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 I mean, why would anyone in the Democratic party even consider listening to advice from John Kasich? It seems only right for people in the party to shoot down any suggestion that Kasich should be looked to as a voice of wisdom to the Democrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 On an amusing note, did you see Benjamin Netanyahu’s tweet to Biden and Harris? He doesn’t actually mention why he’s congratulating them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionAhaiReborn Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Lollygag said: His refusal to try to outreach to the Black community based on their not buying into what he was selling strikes me as overly rigid adherence to a single system rather searching for pragmatic solutions. Regardless, I was hardly the only one with that impression and if you're campaigning and an impression or an attack is inaccurate, it's on you to correct that. He didn't then though I'd argue he's better on that now. Bernie's failure with black voters was obviously devastating to his campaign and we can ask why he failed, but arguing that he literally refused to try is just an absurd characterization. Of course he tried. In the end, he failed spectacularly with older black voters, but performed quite well with younger black voters. Unfortunately, older black voters vote at dramatically higher rates than younger black voters. Again, he has to answer for his failure here. But describing it as a product of refusing to reach out because black voters didn't buy what he was selling has no basis in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Lollygag said: His refusal to try to outreach to the Black community based on their not buying into what he was selling strikes me as overly rigid adherence to a single system rather searching for pragmatic solutions. Regardless, I was hardly the only one with that impression and if you're campaigning and an impression or an attack is inaccurate, it's on you to correct that. He didn't then though I'd argue he's better on that now. Beyond the black community it's hard to forget him yucking it up with Lou Dobbs regarding immigrantion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollygag Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 6 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said: Trump didn't perform a hostile take over of the Republican party, he just helped to bring all of the foul elements within it to the fore. He didn't change a single thing about the core ideology or political tactics of the party. If anything he caused those of the Lincoln Project ilk, to realise they are in a minority and begin the process of exiting the party. They are still delluded by the notion that they are the real party and they just need to get it back from the Trump-types. But they need to realise they haven't been the party for a very long time, if ever, so they need to decide whether to stay in and accept the taint they will be smeared with, or leave and try to start something new and, to them, pure. Those elements have always been there, yes, but a lot of them have never bought in. That's why Trump has had to threaten his own to keep them onboard. This is the whole RINO thing that's been going on since I can remember and the revolt was the RINO wing becoming more powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 Maricopa said they were gonna have an update at 4pm, but now I can't remember if that was their time or eastern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollygag Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 17 minutes ago, JEORDHl said: The one where Trump won the Republican primary? Which world do you live in, sounds nice. I live in the world where Trump caused a rift in the party resulting in the Never Trumpers (and nose-holders who fell into line) and had to threaten his own to keep them loyal because most didn't come willingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 Just now, Lollygag said: I live in the world where Trump caused a rift in the party resulting in the Never Trumpers (and nose-holders who fell into line) and had to threaten his own to keep them loyal because most didn't come willingly. dude 70 million people just voted for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimTuesday Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 22 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said: He ran for office as a Democrat and joined the party literally just long enough to not be an Independent (Democratic Socialist) which is what he has identified as forever. And then identified as again once he could secure a place as running as a Democrat. Who fucking cares what his party identification is? I get that politics is team sports for a lot of people, but holy shit who cares what jersey someone wears. Bernie Sanders has been working with the Democrats for his entire career and to pretend he has been anything other than an ally is disgusting. The man has been out there fighting the good fight while the Democrats abandoned unions in their hour of need, made disastrous trade deals, and cozied up to Wall Street. 19 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said: Trump didn't perform a hostile take over of the Republican party, he just helped to bring all of the foul elements within it to the fore. He didn't change a single thing about the core ideology or political tactics of the party. If anything he caused those of the Lincoln Project ilk, to realise they are in a minority and begin the process of exiting the party. They are still delluded by the notion that they are the real party and they just need to get it back from the Trump-types. But they need to realise they haven't been the party for a very long time, if ever, so they need to decide whether to stay in and accept the taint they will be smeared with, or leave and try to start something new and, to them, pure. This is the correct take with the exception of the bit about the Lincoln Project. Those motherfuckers knew exactly what was going on, they just weren't ready to go mask off like the rest of the party unless they were getting paid for it. If Trump had done exactly the same things he did in the last 4 years, but was more polite, every single one of those scumbags would have been clamoring to get him reelected. 7 minutes ago, Lollygag said: I live in the world where Trump caused a rift in the party resulting in the Never Trumpers (and nose-holders who fell into line) and had to threaten his own to keep them loyal because most didn't come willingly. Maybe you should try living in the real world where the party wrapped itself wholeheartedly around Donald Trump and a small number of Republican operatives were uncomfortable with going mask off on what they have always believed and worked towards saw the opportunity to make a quick buck off of dumb liberals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollygag Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 55 minutes ago, larrytheimp said: What's the ad hominem? What intellectual dishonesty? How do you do a hostile takeover over a political party? I'm going to ignore the spaghetti on the wall and go back to my main point that you're not addressing. Socialist =/= Democrat. Bernie's not a democrat by his own words and party affiliation. Bernie had hostile takeover thrown at him all over the press and he didn't bother correcting that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimTuesday Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 Also maybe don't listen to Jim Clybern, because if this is actually how he thinks, he is a monumental idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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