US Politics: finally we can get back to blaming each other

[Kalbear]

The other topic is going way too far, and finally, after years of suffering, we can get back to what we do best and blame other left-leaning people in various ways for all the problems. 

[All Cats Are Bad]

Stacey Abrams may be the baddest bitch in American politics right now.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Setting aside the debate over whether it's wise for American politicians to set identify as socialists of any stripe, it irks me when people make the "you're only a socialist if you want the state to totally control the means of production" argument. Socialism is a broader category than that, with a long history. Here's a (partial) list of political parties across the globe who identify with socialism, many even have socialism in their names! There are many major political parties on this list. They do not all want to the state to totally control the means of production, if, indeed, any of them do. The meaning of the word socialism was not fixed forever by one 19th century German philosopher.

No, what AOC wants to do does not compare to Marxian socialism. It compares reasonably closely with the socialism advocated by many active socialist identifying political parties in the world today. It is not an unreasonable label in this context. 

[All Cats Are Bad]

11 minutes ago, OnionAhaiReborn said:

No, what AOC wants to do does not compare to Marxian socialism. It compares reasonably closely with the socialism advocated by many active socialist identifying political parties in the world today. It is not an unreasonable label in this context. 

Tbf, if I were a Marxist who wanted to make a go of it in American politics, I would speak and act like a socdem exactly the way AOC does.

[Sci-2]

I think at this point we might as well wait for better exit polling data to see why people voted for Trump or at least didn't vote Dem.

Maybe the math does work out so "Defund the Police", "Socialism", and so on win more voters than they turn off.

edit: And yes winning more voters in CA may not be as valuable as winning/keeping them in Red States.

[Kalbear]

While we don't know about why people specifically voted, it shouldn't be that hard to figure out if something is popular or not in general.

Defund the police was about a 2-1 unpopular view back in June. That said, most people appeared to understand what the message actually was. At the very least it wasn't very popular, and other folks have mentioned that it brought their vote down and people were really concerned about things like safety and security in New York. 

 

[Kalbear]

Also on the Emanuel thing - I should have looked into this more. As far as I can tell the only reason he came up was because his brother is on the covid task force. To my knowledge no one is even proposing him. 

[argonak]

21 minutes ago, Sci-2 said:

I think at this point we might as well wait for better exit polling data to see why people voted for Trump or at least didn't vote Dem.

Maybe the math does work out so "Defund the Police", "Socialism", and so on win more voters than they turn off.

edit: And yes winning more voters in CA may not be as valuable as winning/keeping them in Red States.

As ineffective as polling was again this election, I'm not sure its worth the bother.  The people whose opinion we're all a bit flummoxed about aren't answering polls.

Although come to think of it, no one has ever asked my opinion either, and I'd probably have hung up on them if they tried.  hmm.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Why did Esper get shit canned? 

[IheartIheartTesla]

A true masterclass in how to speak from both sides of your mouth at the same time.

[Luzifer's right hand]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Why did Esper get shit canned? 

Trump wants to the something that involves the military and he was not the guy for the job? 

[Kalbear]

12 minutes ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

Trump wants to the something that involves the military and he was not the guy for the job? 

Nah. Probably the more likely case is that he had already pissed off Trump in August and was openly looking for other work. Petty is a lot more likely at this point instead of actual scary plots.

[Freshwater Spartan]

A couple of random thoughts from the last few days and reading the last few pages.

Rather than doing the unproductive war of moderates vs left the Democrats should be thinking about:

1. There are still A lot of conservatives in this country

2. Give Trump some credit. Most laughed at his campaign targeting African Americans and hispanics. It turns out when you earnestly talk to voters you can persuade some.

3. It was probably the morally right thing to cancel door knocking campaigns and traditional voter drives in the era of COViD but I think it is also almost cost us an election. I am sure it cost us some down ballot seats.

4. Rahm is a tough as nails brass knuckled asshole politician. What fool wouldn't want him having some kind of role in their administration? Though I am not sure a cabinet position is his best fit.

5. Elect lefty types in deep blue districts and moderates in purple districts. Embrace both as important in the party.

[Kalbear]

Also also, if progressives want to lean into things clearly what they should lean into is childcare and maternity leave. ESPECIALLY now, given how much the covid recession has hit child caregivers. Required maternity leave has something like 80% overall approval, and government sponsored childcare has like 75% approval. Go after that!

 

 

[Fury Resurrected]

Just now, Killjoybear said:

Also also, if progressives want to lean into things clearly what they should lean into is childcare and maternity leave. ESPECIALLY now, given how much the covid recession has hit child caregivers. Required maternity leave has something like 80% overall approval, and government sponsored childcare has like 75% approval. Go after that!

 

 

I mean, healthcare is just as COVID relevant (moreso actually) and most Americans do support at least a public option but UHC is a popular position. The progressive platform (with the exception of the Green New Deal) has wide public support 

[Guy Kilmore]

7 minutes ago, Freshwater Spartan said:

A couple of random thoughts from the last few days and reading the last few pages.

Rather than doing the unproductive war of moderates vs left the Democrats should be thinking about:

1. There are still A lot of conservatives in this country

2. Give Trump some credit. Most laughed at his campaign targeting African Americans and hispanics. It turns out when you earnestly talk to voters you can persuade some.

3. It was probably the morally right thing to cancel door knocking campaigns and traditional voter drives in the era of COViD but I think it is also almost cost us an election. I am sure it cost us some down ballot seats.

4. Rahm is a tough as nails brass knuckled asshole politician. What fool wouldn't want him having some kind of role in their administration? Though I am not sure a cabinet position is his best fit.

5. Elect lefty types in deep blue districts and moderates in purple districts. Embrace both as important in the party.

My own reflections too, minus Rahm.

And that the rural urban divide is becoming bigger than ever.

[Martell Spy]

Washington Post, there is a paywall.

Quote

 

The basis of the conclusion that Trump did surprisingly well was, on the right, that Trump outperformed polls — which, obviously, are not working — and, on the left, that Trump is such an anomaly that anything banal or normal such as “incumbency advantage” ought not apply to him. But given Trump’s incumbency and the state of the economy in his first three years, his baseline should have been to win comfortably. If you forget the polls and the idea that anybody voting for Trump should feel demoralizing, his electoral performance was, simply, a sensational failure. It’s not to Democrats’ advantage to move the goal posts such that a potentially historic win by a challenger — Biden — comes to feel, emotionally, like a defeat. This is the kind of narrative for which Republicans argue — not just this year, but all the time. The conservative magazine American Greatness argued on Thursday that the election “resoundingly validates President Trump’s policies,” pointing to Trump’s “historic victory” with Florida Latinos. “That is the incontestable reality,” the editorial continued, “no matter the vote [count].”

The wording here is important. A Republican triumph is an emotional “reality” that cannot be contested no matter the real reality. Insofar as the goal of much of conservative politics these days is to ding Democrats’ pride, they make themselves out as tremendous underdogs in America, such that any votes they receive are a surprising triumph and a humiliation for Democrats, who always ought to do better. Thus, every swing state or nationwide election becomes a 16th seed facing a top dog. And even a narrow loss or draw — like, say, a popular-vote loss offset by an electoral college victory — is an awesome upset, a “win,” an owning-of-the-libs, proof of Democratic weakness. The rules always shift such that even a dismal result for them can be called in their favor. In 2016, to win meant winning the electoral college. In 2020, to win means winning more people, by a raw head count, than Trump won in 2016, or maybe just more Latinos. The conservative Free Beacon actually declared Thursday that Trump “won” because he “accomplished his goal of becoming the most famous person on Earth.”

This isn’t, of course, the actual metric by which you win an American election. But it’s one of the ever-shifting rules as to what constitutes the moral victory, the psychological triumph. Those on the left often seem to buy these right-wing narratives.

 

Trump did far worse in the election than we should have expected
By the standards of most other incumbents, his reelection campaign was a historic failure

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/11/09/trump-incumbency-advantage-defeat/

[Larry of the Lawn]

1 hour ago, Killjoybear said:

Also on the Emanuel thing - I should have looked into this more. As far as I can tell the only reason he came up was because his brother is on the covid task force. To my knowledge no one is even proposing him. 

Hey, I'm glad you didn't look into it more- that was the most fun I've had since Trump got covid.  Might be worth suggesting he's on a shortlist for a Senate confirmed position every 2-3 months just for mental health purposes.  

[Zorral]

13 minutes ago, Guy Kilmore said:

 

And that the rural urban divide is becoming bigger than ever.

But it is also between rich and poor, and that rural section isn't the poor.

I posted this before, the breakdown demographics via income as to whom voted for whom.

 

[Mindwalker]

This is gonna be good: Kayleigh McEnany pressc conference on voter fraud...