US Politics: finally we can get back to blaming each other

[Caligula_K3]

13 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Republicans have not seen a Democrat President as legitimate since the 1990's. Radicals blew up a federal building over it and killed many. 

Eh, but that was the extreme fringe. The extreme fringe is now the mainstream, and if the Oklahoma City Bombing were to happen again, Timothy McVeigh would be held up as a hero by a significant portion of the American population.

[Fez]

In other big news, SCOTUS' ACA hearing has been happening this morning. 

It's certainly important not to read too many tea leaves into what the justices say/ask during a hearing. But Roberts and Kavanaugh seem to be very strongly hinting that they think the individual mandate is severable from the law overall, which therefore renders the case moot and the ACA stands. Though Kavanaugh does also seem to suggest that he thinks the mandate is unconstitutional, which will have implications for potential future legislation.

[Toth]

18 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Republicans have not seen a Democrat President as legitimate since the 1990's. Radicals blew up a federal building over it and killed many. 

Funny, I just found this chart about "Share of voters who said each of the following elections were free and fair" divided among party lines while researching for my classes tomorrow: https://assets.morningconsult.com/wp-uploads/2020/11/09163319/trust-charts-1_SE.png

Source: https://morningconsult.com/form/tracking-voter-trust-in-elections/

While it is true that Republicans have always been more skeptical in the past, this time it's ludicrously skewered.

But hey, to lighten up the mood, I just saw this song linked:

 

[Rippounet]

Eh... not going to make friends on this one, but the "erasure of trust in the American elections system" cannot be blamed on Republicans alone. The legitimacy of both the 2000 and the 2016 presidential elections was questioned by the Dems/liberals. Not without reason, of course, but this is not exactly a partisan issue, it goes way deeper.
I could even point out that the results of primaries have also been a subject of contention at times...
Point is, this isn't something new. Trump's refusal to accept the results of this election has been made easier by a series of acrimonious debates around previous results. Trump, as usual, is only pushing it one step further. Which is bad, but can't be understood and fought without keeping in mind what came before that.

Edit: yes, I know this is false equivalence, the point I'm trying to make (that isn't easy to articulate) is that rebuilding trust may entail bipartisanship and deeper reforms... conceivably a couple of laws and/or amendments to the Constitution.

[Kalbear]

2 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

Eh... not going to make friends on this one, but the "erasure of trust in the American elections system" cannot be blamed on Republicans alone. The legitimacy of both the 2000 and the 2016 presidential elections was questioned by the Dems/liberals. Not without reason, of course, but this is not exactly a partisan issue, it goes way deeper.
I could even point out that the results of primaries have also been a subject of contention at times...
Point is, this isn't something new. Trump's refusal to accept the results of this election has been made easier by a series of acrimonious debates around previous results. Trump, as usual, is only pushing it one step further. Which is bad, but can't be understood and fought without keeping in mind what came before that.

Yeah, you're not going to make a lot of friends on this one because it's a bullshit take. In both 2000 and 2016 the actual politicians involved conceded and moved on. The parties involved did the same. People were riled up, but they were the minority (as seen by the chart above). This is very different. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

31 minutes ago, teej6 said:

The problem is that now that almost half the country has given tacit consent to Trump’s madness and criminality by voting for him, the spineless republicans have little to no incentive to go against the Trump crime family. Don Jr and his crazy girlfriend are engineering a full take over of the RNC.

Technically half of America didn’t consent to Trump, just half of the people who voted.

[Guy Kilmore]

6 minutes ago, Fez said:

In other big news, SCOTUS' ACA hearing has been happening this morning. 

It's certainly important not to read too many tea leaves into what the justices say/ask during a hearing. But Roberts and Kavanaugh seem to be very strongly hinting that they think the individual mandate is severable from the law overall, which therefore renders the case moot and the ACA stands. Though Kavanaugh does also seem to suggest that he thinks the mandate is unconstitutional, which will have implications for potential future legislation.

I have been watching this with interest and reading much of the same.  It also sounds like that the plantifs have lost a ton of backers, and some of those former backers are now asking the court to not strike down the law.

[Kalbear]

1 minute ago, Guy Kilmore said:

I have been watching this with interest and reading much of the same.  It also sounds like that the plantifs have lost a ton of backers, and some of those former backers are now asking the court to not strike down the law.

Unfortunately that doesn't really matter. It's entirely in the hands of 9 people, 3 of which believe that black people shouldn't have a full right to vote.

[Rippounet]

20 minutes ago, Killjoybear said:

Yeah, you're not going to make a lot of friends on this one because it's a bullshit take. In both 2000 and 2016 the actual politicians involved conceded and moved on. The parties involved did the same. People were riled up, but they were the minority (as seen by the chart above). This is very different. 

The bolded is bullshit, and if you'd waited a few minutes to think about it before hitting the "quote" button, you would be aware of it.

[Ormond]

36 minutes ago, Caligula_K3 said:

Eh, but that was the extreme fringe. The extreme fringe is now the mainstream, and if the Oklahoma City Bombing were to happen again, Timothy McVeigh would be held up as a hero by a significant portion of the American population.

I think you are completely wrong here. There is no way that a significant portion of the American population are going to agree with someone blowing up a day care center, which was part of what happened there. 

[Guy Kilmore]

28 minutes ago, Killjoybear said:

Unfortunately that doesn't really matter. It's entirely in the hands of 9 people, 3 of which believe that black people shouldn't have a full right to vote.

Oh, I know.  Which is why I have been paying attention, as Fez alluded to earlier what Kavanaugh and Roberts have been alluding too.  Because if they vote in favor on the ACA this time around, then it is probably okay.  I mention the backer issue because I think that it might be something that Kavanaugh and Roberts might consider.  Roberts because of legitmacy and Kavanaugh for political hackery type reasons.  I think Roberts can wrangle Kavanaugh's support if they can some how strike down congress's ability at creating future mandates.

But who knows?  This is why I mocked my liberal friends who said they don't really follow the Supreme court back in 2016.

[kairparavel]

Can't wait to see how concerned citizens look to protect the vote during the midterms. 

[Kalbear]

17 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

The bolded is bullshit, and if you'd waited a few minutes to think about it before hitting the "quote" button, you would be aware of it.

It really isn't. The Democratic party did concede in both cases. So did the candidates. This is a matter of record. Clinton conceded less than 24 hours after the election. The party itself didn't do much to contest it at all. 

[Zorral]

5 hours ago, SeanF said:

Calling Obama a "war criminal" is something of a stretch.

That's for damned sure.

@anti-targ -- Chomsky said vote for Biden fer pete's sake!  See this interview:

https://the.ink/p/noam-chomsky-wants-you-to-vote-for

Those who think this mess let loose by Barr ultimately doesn't matter?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/11/10/whats-downside-humoring-him-gop-officials-unintentionally-revealing-quote-about-trump-era/

Quote

The problem ... Trump’s enablers are breathing life into Trump’s and his legal team’s haphazard and specious claims of fraud.

....Folks like Esper, Kelly, Barr and the anonymous GOP official might genuinely believe they are doing what’s best by pacifying Trump (though in Esper’s case, he overstates his reluctance to stroke Trump’s ego). But that pacification comes with a price. Just because it’s difficult to quantify or fully grasp doesn’t mean it won’t have lasting implications....

Including getting these phoney allegations of election fraud going to the SC -- not to mention local and state rethug candidates who lost already declaring VOTER FRAUD and refusing to concede their elections.

Quote

...And feeding into the thus-far completely baseless idea that an American election was stolen — what longtime Post reporter Dan Balz has called Trump’s most blatant effort to undermine democracy — would seem to be pretty high on the things you should approach with extreme caution.

Again, They have made Pennsylvania the do it or lose battle ground for final disunion, i.e. takeover over the federal government. That was Lee, invading PA in 1863: the stand-off of the Bridge at Lancaster, the Carnage of Gettysburg -- next, Washington, D.C.  Heroic PA -- Columbia–Wrightsville Bridge, burned by Union militia under Maj. Granville O. Haller and Col. Jacob G. Frick on June 28, 1863. As Confederates advanced onto the bridge, Union forces set fire to it near the Wrightsville side. Earlier they had saturated the structure with crude oil from a Columbia refinery. The entire structure soon caught fire and completely burned in six hours. Confederate generals Jubal A. Early and John B. Gordon had originally planned to save the bridge despite orders from General Robert E. Lee to burn it ....

They still weren't done.  Essentially warlordism worth of the 1300's and 1500's in the summer of 1864, as confed troops were 'unofficially' encouraged to feed themselves out of Southern PA. That was the summer of the Burning of Chambersburg via warlord -- for the second time it was demanded of Chambersburg, give us ransom or we burn you down.  This time around the city fathers chose to burn.
 

 

[Larry of the Lawn]

1 hour ago, Fez said:

In other big news, SCOTUS' ACA hearing has been happening this morning. 

It's certainly important not to read too many tea leaves into what the justices say/ask during a hearing. But Roberts and Kavanaugh seem to be very strongly hinting that they think the individual mandate is severable from the law overall, which therefore renders the case moot and the ACA stands. Though Kavanaugh does also seem to suggest that he thinks the mandate is unconstitutional, which will have implications for potential future legislation.

Gorsuch even pointed out that reducing a tax from $600 to $0 doesn't eliminate the possibility of it being raised above zero in the future.  

[Martell Spy]

23 minutes ago, kairparavel said:

Can't wait to see how concerned citizens look to protect the vote during the midterms. 

Can't wait for the middle-aged white man Founding fathers cosplay.

[Zorral]

4 hours ago, Relic said:

All those people celebrating out on the street this weekend probably underestimate the nature of the GOP. In general i keep seeing people i know react in shock and outrage at every new GOP wrench. Maybe not here, in this little bit of virtual space, altho i DO see some of that here as well. 

The same sorts of hordes who danced when Obama was elected, in ecstasy this proved the USA was non-racist and had forever healed the deep cancer of slavery, blahblahblah.  They were all white folks, btw.

~~~~~~

What does it mean that Pence is going on vacation now?  We haven't 'seen' shoggoth since golf on Saturday, so it sure looks like all this period has been planning their response to change the election and take-over forever.  Ya think Pence going out to coordinate with the anti-woman and LBGQT evangelical terrorists?

[Week]

Welp. Pompeo has full confidence in a smooth transition to a second Trump Administration.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ElieNYC/status/1326230782642429952

He should be censured and dragged to the House in disgrace. 

[Larry of the Lawn]

Opinion piece from BI on interpreting the will of the electorate, touches most if the stuff that's come up here in the past few days.

Quote

Given the weaker showing down ballot, Democrats and liberal pundits are casting about for an explanation of just what went wrong on Tuesday. 

More right-wing members of the loose anti-Trump coalition — the Bush-era neocons and Reagan Republicans who have recently hitched their wagon to the Democrats — have found their boogeyman: baseless claims that accusations of "socialism" hurt Biden and down-ballot Democrats. Centrists and liberals, meanwhile, have settled into a narrative claiming Biden's moderate stances made him the only candidate who could have beaten Trump. And on the left, simmering anger over years of dismissiveness is reaching a boiling point

Quote

With a steady but narrow edge in a number of key states, Biden is set to come into office under a cloud of chaos as the results are attacked by Trump's supporters and the president himself. Further complicating things, the GOP may well retain control of the Senate, stymieing the incoming administration's agenda before it starts. 

But there are signs that Biden can claim a mandate as he enters the Oval Office. First, the popular vote chasm stands at 4 million votes and the former vice president's lead will only grow from here. There is no way to spin this in Trump's favor — a clear and insurmountable majority of the country chose Biden as the president.

Trump, like his Republican predecessor George W. Bush in 2000, used an Electoral College victory that saw him lose the popular vote in 2016 as a mandate. For Biden to not take advantage of the nationwide numbers — and the fact that he has won more votes in a single election than any presidential candidate in US history — would be an act of major political malpractice

Should definitely keep hammering on the big popular vote differential and the "HIGHEST SCORE EVER!"

[DireWolfSpirit]

I have workmates in Wisconsin that genuinely believe Pennsylvania and Arizona have been taken back from Biden and that the election will still go to Trump.

I do not even bother to untwist them from the "Newsmax" wind they find themselves swirling in.

Nazis gonna Nazi. I do believe the butthurt will have to face facts eventually but they are bound and determined to trash everything as we slowly exit the bastards. The GOP will play their string out up until the very moment that certification happens.

I have come to the realization that there is no hate greater than the hate about 50% of Americans harbor for one another. A great many Americans simply hate each other in a deep resounding way. So unfortunate.