US Politics: finally we can get back to blaming each other

[mormont]

6 minutes ago, Relic said:

You guys are reading that link wrong.

Really, no, we're not. I think, rather, that you're reading his post wrong.

DaveSumm said he'd be shocked if 15% of the population believed Trump was the rightful winner. Here's a poll that shows that only 3% do. Yes, 13% of the rest think it's undecided (and 5% don't know).

However, Dave did not say that he'd be shocked if 15% either thought Trump was the winner or thought it was undecided. Even if he had, 16% compared to 15% isn't that dramatic a difference. And of course, there's no particular reason to lump those undecided people in with the 'Trump is the rightful winner' crowd in their entirety. I mean, Trump's been selling his bullshit for a week now and they aren't on board yet.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

Idk about that. Keep in mind these people are members of a cult now, not a political party. Rational thinking for many has gone out the window.

What does scare me is Trump calling for “Patriot Militias” to come and defend him in the White House.  Depending on the numbers who show up it could require Biden to invoke the “Insurrection Act” (with good cause) to finally remove Trump.  

That said I just don’t see Trump taking the martyr’s path.  He’s too much the physical coward.

[Relic]

6 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Well as to my initial claim that you quoted, how many think he’s the rightful winner, it says 3% fairly clearly. You could easily attribute the 13% to people who think we should hold on for the court claims, which will all be tossed out. You may well be right that ‘some’ would back a coup, but how many is some? You’d need good evidence to suggest it’s anything other than ‘a negligible amount’.

Sure, fine, 13% are as of yet undecided. Who knows where they will land on the matter in a few weeks. When all is said and done however, i believe that there will be a substantial portion of the American population who will insist that Trump won. Most of them won't get violent, at least at first, but a small portion of them will. Hopefully I'm wrong and its all rainbows instead. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

3 minutes ago, Relic said:

Sure, fine, 13% are as of yet undecided. Who knows where they will land on the matter in a few weeks. When all is said and done however, i believe that there will be a substantial portion of the American population who will insist that Trump won. Most of them won't get violent, at least at first, but a small portion of them will. Hopefully I'm wrong and its all rainbows instead. 

It will not be all rainbows, but that doesn’t mean the only other alternative is the apocalypse.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

What does scare me is Trump calling for “Patriot Militias” to come and defend him in the White House.  Depending on the numbers who show up it could require Biden to invoke the “Insurrection Act” (with good cause) to finally remove Trump.  

That said I just don’t see Trump taking the martyr’s path.  He’s too much the physical coward.

The overwhelming majority of those militia types are every bit the cowards that Trump is. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

The overwhelming majority of those militia types are every bit the cowards that Trump is. 

I sincerely hope you are correct.

[Werthead]

42 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

What does scare me is Trump calling for “Patriot Militias” to come and defend him in the White House.  Depending on the numbers who show up it could require Biden to invoke the “Insurrection Act” (with good cause) to finally remove Trump.  

That said I just don’t see Trump taking the martyr’s path.  He’s too much the physical coward.

They couldn't be bothered to support Trump's inauguration when all they had to do was show up and cheer. They're not going to drive across the country to take part in an armed insurrection in which they'd be in personal danger (touch wood).

[S John]

49 minutes ago, Relic said:

You guys are reading that link wrong. 3% believe Trump flat out won, 13 percent believe the election is undecided as of yet. 79% believe Biden won, but that doesn't mean some of them wouldn't back a Trump coup, or be convinced by Breitbart of a Trump "win". 

Also, while those numbers are low now what concerns me is that, given time, the conservative media will sink their teeth into whatever nonsense thing Trump is touting and after a few weeks or months of that it’s gospel. I think we’ve seen that with Trump lies multiple times. Something is ridiculous on its face, but given time to lie about it daily it begins to sink in and become an accepted part of the dogma.

Would absolutely not shock me to see that 3% balloon to 20-30% if this drags on to Jan 20.  Trump isn’t going to stop and nobody in the conservative apparatus will stand up to him becuase they are scared to death of his voters and also completely lack any balls whatsoever. I do think that once these cases are all wrapped up he will leave, but I wouldn’t underestimate the damage he can do on his way out. It’s really sad how stupid we are.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

18 minutes ago, Werthead said:

They couldn't be bothered to support Trump's inauguration when all they had to do was show up and cheer. They're not going to drive across the country to take part in an armed insurrection in which they'd be in personal danger (touch wood).

I hope you are right.  Sometimes anger is more motivating than pleasure.

[DaveSumm]

21 minutes ago, S John said:

Also, while those numbers are low now what concerns me is that, given time, the conservative media will sink their teeth into whatever nonsense thing Trump is touting and after a few weeks or months of that it’s gospel. I think we’ve seen that with Trump lies multiple times. Something is ridiculous on its face, but given time to lie about it daily it begins to sink in and become an accepted part of the dogma.

Would absolutely not shock me to see that 3% balloon to 20-30% if this drags on to Jan 20.  Trump isn’t going to stop and nobody in the conservative apparatus will stand up to him becuase they are scared to death of his voters and also completely lack any balls whatsoever. I do think that once these cases are all wrapped up he will leave, but I wouldn’t underestimate the damage he can do on his way out. It’s really sad how stupid we are.

I still can’t see why we should expect the number to go up. Trump stood in the White House and said that he’d won, and that any further voting counts should be suspect when he was ahead. That horrible part of the night where we all had a sinking suspicion that he had won, even though he shouldn’t be saying it. But even that has left us with 3% who think he did. I just can’t see how the case doesn’t get less convincing over time, especially with Fox calling it for Biden. That’s what the vast majority of Trump voters are watching. 

So: President announcing he’s won + a week of his absolute best efforts = 3%. His case only gets worse from here on out, even if he’s entirely right he isn’t even claiming anything significant enough to overturn the result. The early hours of last Wednesday were the peak of his argument holding water, and it’s leaked heavily since.

[VigoTheCarpathian]

Not that the Dems have any great track record in messaging or execution, but is there anything public they could do to force Rs in Congress to have a referendum on their own election legitimacy, if they are going to be silent on Trump not vacating?  Something that’d require their newly elected positions to pay for a recount or else sign/support abiding by the results of the election?

I don’t see how anyone can say “president deserves to be heard in court” and “nah, the legislature election is fine, doesn’t need to be in court” - make them own that they are trying to have it both ways.

[Fez]

Looks like Alaska's starting to get called by some outlets. Still about half the absentee ballots need to be counted, but what's come in so far isn't nearly good enough for Biden or Al Gross to catch up. I don't think anyone expected otherwise, not after seeing how other states went last week, but it wasn't important to wait and see if anything crazy happened with turnout in the bush.

[Relic]

1 hour ago, S John said:

Also, while those numbers are low now what concerns me is that, given time, the conservative media will sink their teeth into whatever nonsense thing Trump is touting and after a few weeks or months of that it’s gospel. I think we’ve seen that with Trump lies multiple times. Something is ridiculous on its face, but given time to lie about it daily it begins to sink in and become an accepted part of the dogma.

Would absolutely not shock me to see that 3% balloon to 20-30% if this drags on to Jan 20.  Trump isn’t going to stop and nobody in the conservative apparatus will stand up to him becuase they are scared to death of his voters and also completely lack any balls whatsoever. I do think that once these cases are all wrapped up he will leave, but I wouldn’t underestimate the damage he can do on his way out. It’s really sad how stupid we are.

Agree with you a 100%. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I sincerely hope you are correct.

Most of them are doing little more than playing soldier. Problem is they're cosplaying with real guys, so having a bag thrown at one of them might lead to them committing murder like we saw in WI. But on a large scale, no, they won't do anything. They would have already if they were planning on doing it.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

8 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Most of them are doing little more than playing soldier. Problem is they're cosplaying with real guys, so having a bag thrown at one of them might lead to them committing murder like we saw in WI. But on a large scale, no, they won't do anything. They would have already if they were planning on doing it.

I sincerely hope you are correct.

[HoodedCrow]

Remember the run up to the Iraq war. To anyone really looking, it seemed all about revenge on the wrong people, manufactured evidence, discrediting people like Hans Blix who was declaring that he found No WMD, then getting the troops in place with people in the US. The tone in the US was too radical and pro war overall for politicians to try to stop it.

Hey do the Dems have outstanding warrants for failing to obey subpoenas? Can they be arrested now?

[Ran]

Don't know Kristol's sourcing, but if true... a very ugly look, but what can you expect in the final, flailing weeks of a disasterous presidency?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

9 minutes ago, Ran said:

Don't know Kristol's sourcing, but if true... a very ugly look, but what can you expect in the final, flailing weeks of a disasterous presidency?

But the “Clap-Out” is a good sign for resistance to his last flailing attempts to hold power.

[Martell Spy]

3 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

What does scare me is Trump calling for “Patriot Militias” to come and defend him in the White House.  Depending on the numbers who show up it could require Biden to invoke the “Insurrection Act” (with good cause) to finally remove Trump.  

That said I just don’t see Trump taking the martyr’s path.  He’s too much the physical coward.

He's never going to use that kind of direct language that will put him in legal peril. Look at how he inspired the kidnapping plot of Whitmer and egged it on. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Don't worry guys, the Republican in the senate will stop him from staging a coup, this time they will control him for realz.