US Politics - The Conceit of Not Conceding

[Kalbear]

1 minute ago, Martell Spy said:

Sure, in some cases. And definitely in self-contracting. Many people though do contracting because it's easier to get hired and get jobs they might not get otherwise. And yes, some actively make a choice to contract because the company might want extra hours beyond 40 worked to get the employee badge.

Right now though that employee badge is valuable largely because of benefits. 

[SFDanny]

After the nonsense in Michigan last night, I thought people would like to know each state's deadlines for certification of their votes. Ballotpedia has the dates here.

[The Anti-Targ]

1 hour ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Naw, you definitely aren’t going after me - I can tell it’s not personal.

Here’s the thing, though - my job is a “professional” role. In the US, professional employees DO NOT unionize. It is simply “not done”. We have professional associations, but we do not unionize.

Also - does “management” ever unionize?? In that role, I was right below the VP of Finance in a $2 bn company. Third level from the CFO of the company.

Non-executive management does unionise, in that they belong to the same union as the staff, but they don't belong to a managers union.

[DMC]

24 minutes ago, argonak said:

There are American professional unions, but they are rarer.  Mostly only with government agencies.  I was in IFPTE for a number of years.

There's also, ya know, the NEA - one of the most powerful unions in the country.  But I guess we're not counting teachers as "professional?"  Kinda says a lot.  (Not criticizing you personally argonak, tbc.)

[Kalbear]

Think that's on you then. 

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

I always thought of “the professions” as law, medicine, and accountancy/actuarial.

That's a pretty narrow definition.

[OldGimletEye]

16 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

 but they don't belong to a managers union.

I thought we usually called that the "corporate board". And when all your friends are on the board, who needs unions?

[OldGimletEye]

37 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

The Board is elected by the shareholders. The Board appoints executive management.

 

Entirely different.

I'm entirely aware of how it works (or how it is supposed to at least). But, generally, I think corporate boards are a mess, at least in the United States.

[The Anti-Targ]

5 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

I thought we usually called that the "corporate board". And when all your friends on the board, who needs unions?

The "old boys network" is indeed a union unto itself, you just pay dues in a different way, like having to be a member of a certain country club or some such thing.

[OldGimletEye]

In theory they are so supposed to represent the interest of shareholders. How that works in practice is a different question.

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

I revised! I visited Wikipedia - lol - I  had forgotten three.

Looking at the wikipedia page, they also say:  

Quote

With the rise of technology and occupational specialization in the 19th century, other bodies began to claim professional status: mechanical engineering, pharmacy, veterinary medicine, psychology, nursing, teaching, librarianship, optometry and social work, each of which could claim, using these milestones, to have become professions by 1900.

Generally, I'd say anything that requires a graduate degree qualifies as a "profession," particularly when we're describing the "professional class" vis-a-vis the "working class."

[OldGimletEye]

5 minutes ago, DMC said:

Looking at the wikipedia page, they also say:  

Generally, I'd say anything that requires a graduate degree qualifies as a "profession," particularly when we're describing the "professional class" vis-a-vis the "working class."

There is a joke about the guy who hires a plumber, the plumber finishes his work, and then hands the guy the bill. The guy says, "Man, I'm a lawyer and I don't even charge that!". The plumber looks at him says, "neither did I when I was a lawyer."

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

a person who quit law to become an exterminator

There's a difference?

[Martell Spy]

22 minutes ago, DMC said:

Looking at the wikipedia page, they also say:  

Generally, I'd say anything that requires a graduate degree qualifies as a "profession," particularly when we're describing the "professional class" vis-a-vis the "working class."

Yeah, hasn't anyone watched The Alienist? He is clearly a professional.

[Martell Spy]

16 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

There is a joke about the guy who hires a plumber, the plumber finishes his work, and then hands the guy the bill. The guy says, "Man, I'm a lawyer and I don't even charge that!". The plumber looks at him says, "neither did I when I was a lawyer."

Remember that "average working Joe", Joe the plumber? Made like 300 K a year. Not sure how he got by on those scraps.

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Remember that "average working Joe", Joe the plumber? Made like 300 K a year. Not sure how he got by on those scraps.

I remember he wasn't technically a plumber.

[Zorral]

3 hours ago, argonak said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/18/health-care-worker-threats-coronavirus/?arc404=true

This is the story of a county health clerk who has been working in Missouri to try and save her community, and was so mercilessly attacked for it she was worried for her family's safety and quit her job.  It's heartbreaking and should be a real warning sign that a huge portion of our country has been radicalized to a dangerous extent by right wing media.  I used to wonder how people could join ISIS, but now I don't.

The Fargo-Moorhead paper today carries a story of a woman in a convenience store getting seriously assaulted by a couple who came in without masks -- when now there is a state-wide enforceable mandate to wear masks indoors in any public venues.  She told them they had to wear masks and their were outraged.

Way too little too late now that the population has been so thoroughly, successfully brain-washed. 

[Zorral]

31 minutes ago, DMC said:

Looking at the wikipedia page, they also say:  

Generally, I'd say anything that requires a graduate degree qualifies as a "profession," particularly when we're describing the "professional class" vis-a-vis the "working class."

Including librarians.

Never though of accountancy and a lot of business positions as specifically 'professional' for that reason.  White Collar, can be Very Well Paid, Sure, but not professional, as grad degrees are not necessary.  OTOH, accountants at least have to pass exams, like lawyers and electricians and hair stylists and the like do.  So, yah, probably!

[argonak]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

There's also, ya know, the NEA - one of the most powerful unions in the country.  But I guess we're not counting teachers as "professional?"  Kinda says a lot.  (Not criticizing you personally argonak, tbc.)

Good point.  My wife is a former college professor, and if she read my post she'd probably give me a good glare for forgetting about them.

  

10 minutes ago, Zorral said:

The Fargo-Moorhead paper today carries a story of a woman in a convenience store getting seriously assaulted by a couple who came in without masks -- when now there is a state-wide enforceable mandate to wear masks indoors in any public venues.  She told them they had to wear masks and their were outraged.

Way too little too late now that the population has been so thoroughly, successfully brain-washed. 

If my wife was still teaching in the current conditions, I would seriously have considered asking her to quit.  The way many of the schools and parents have been treating teachers is reprehensible.  Some people seem to consider them almost disposable.  And yet they entrust their children to them?  It boggles the mind.

[maarsen]

2 hours ago, Kalbear Total Landscaping said:

Professionals in other countries regularly unionize. 

Not allowed in Canada. Professional associations are allowed but not actual unions.