Where do you think Aegon and Stannis will end up?

[Alyn Oakenfist]

So Aegon and Stannis are very similar in a number of crucial ways. They're both rulers with a lot of legitimacy, probably the most legitimate pretenders out there. They also both have the potential to be very good rulers, and probably will be in the case of Aegon. However, both have the same problem of not being a main character and clearly having no chance of sitting on the Throne by the end. So given that the Throne is probably not an option (Jon, Dany or Bran are the only true candidates) what do you think will happen to these 2. My gut instinct is they'll both be dead, thought I can see both living as vassals of Jon or Dany.

[TedBear]

in the coffin

[frenin]

Given that we already know the ending and that Bran the Broken is a sure thing, Dany and Jon are not going rule anything. Aegon and Stannis are as good as dead.

I'm fine with that.

[$erPounce]

I am completely convinced that Aegon will sit on the Iron Throne:

We know that by the following:

• George R. R. Martin has hinted at a Second Dance of Dragons, a war of succession between two Targaryen pretenders (in an interview from 2003) . Know that he hinted in a 2000 interview that Aegon might still be alive.

 

Quote

Hi, short question. Will we find out more about the Dance of the Dragons in future books?

The first dance or the second? The second will be the subject of a book. The first will be mentioned from time to time, I'm sure.

• We also have several hints in Daenerys' storyline about the role of Aegon. For example in the House of the Undying: "A cloth dragon sways on poles amidst a cheering crowd".
• In blog posts by George R. R. Martin, Aegon is mentioned with a regnal number: Aegon VI Targaryen. Regnal numbers can only be used by ruling monarchs. This may be a potential hint that he will sit on the throne at some point.

Anyway, I think that when Daenerys lands on Westeros, she needs serious opposition. With Cersei as regent you don't have that at all, it's a corrupt government with butt lickers and a lot of enemies within King's Landing itself. Cersei could not even unite her own "allies" against Daenerys because of her own incompetence. Under Kevan it might have been possible, but he is no longer there.

With Aegon on the Iron Throne (which he can only keep for a short time), Daenerys ends up in a conflict that is personally intertwined with her. Anyway, a conflict between Aegon and Daenerys is more interesting than a conflict between Cersei and Daenerys.

According to the current state of affairs it is mainly Daenerys who will be badly received in Westeros, with her barbaric Dothraki, slave soldiers, Tyrion (who has a reputation as a kingslayer and kinslayer - he is Tywin writ small), Victarion (the Ironborn will be widely hated after their attacks in the Reach), Moqorro (his religion is seen as satanistic in Westeros) and monstrous dragons that everyone would fear... One of the few good advisors is  Barristan, of whom I believe he will question his loyalty to her when he discovers that Aegon has a better claim and when Daenerys embraces her Targaryen mantra

Everything seems to have turned against Daenerys. However, it is also unrealistic that Aegon's government will be accepted without resistance (even if he would be loved as king, as is claimed in prophecies). We still have Baratheon claimants with Stannis and Shireen (although they are almost a non-factor in the South), so Aegon's government will not be recognized by everyone. Aegon VI won't even manage to unite the entire Seven Kingdoms against Daenerys.Jon Connington will be the disgrace during Aegon's reign as a result of his dishonorable way of operating... With him we actually have Tyrion's equal, who also has a similar way of doing things and will be detested. Jon Connington also has Greyscale, which can also have interesting consequences.

So, you now have an idea of what to expect from a Second Dance  of Dragons.The houses have good motives to join one of the two claimants. 

 

For Stannis... He can forget the Iron Throne. Stannis is expected to win The battle of Ice (possibly according to the Night Lamp theory) and later to conquer Winterfell for the Starks. There are few other options: it is unlikely due to distance and weather conditions that Stannis will lose, march back and burn Shireen, who is now at the wall. This will only happen later in other circumstances. 

I assume Stannis will install Rickon as Lord of Winterfell after Davos brings him back from Skagos. Rickon's reign, however, will be disputed by Jon Snow when he discovers Robb's Will (Robb wanted Jon as his successor). So there will also be an inheritance conflict. Know that Jon Snow will probably not have the best reputation after he is brought back to life. He will be considered an oathbreaker after his interference in the game or thrones as Lord Commander of the Night Watch (violation of political neutrality). 

As far as Stannis is concerned, after the conquest of Winterfell, the situation on the wall (in connection with the Others) will be very worrying. Maybe he will support the fight against the Others and then sacrifice Shireen there without result.

Or Stannis will confront Daenerys (see vision "A blue-eyed king who casts no shadow raises a red sword in his hand" in the House of Undying), with the potential support of mercenary armies from Essos and the North (e.g. the Manderly fleet). This is a hopeless mission, with the sacrifice of Shireen in a desperate attempt to bring the Stone Dragon to life, without success. After that, Stannis will give up all his ambitions for the Throne.

[Arthur Peres]

52 minutes ago, frenin said:

Given that we already know the ending and that Bran the Broken is a sure thing, Dany and Jon are not going rule anything. Aegon and Stannis are as good as dead.

 

Is that confirmed? I thought it was just a abomination and non sense of season 8

[Alyn Oakenfist]

49 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

Is that confirmed? I thought it was just a abomination and non sense of season 8

It's a matter of ongoing debate. We know that the abomination kept to some details and or ideas, while raping the story and warping it into one of Euron's eldritch abominations. So it's hard to say if who is King at the end carried over. I do hope that we don't get Bran the Broken, Jon as a constitutional monarch would be perfect, Dany as a war weary and compromising monarch too, anything but Bran the fucking Broken.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

1 hour ago, frenin said:

Aegon and Stannis are as good as dead.

I'm fine with that.

Aegon probably. I'm not so sure about Stannis thought, given that:

- the abomination fucked him over since Season 2, to the point that he was so warped that the story there is completely unreliable. 

- Also unlike the abomination Stannis's ark in ASOIAF is learning to bend rather then break (albeit slowly). Him surviving and bending the knee would be a perfect end to such an ark.

[Curled Finger]

They will both definitely be dead when all is said and done.   It is a matter of what legacies either of them will leave.  I'm hoping Stannis will continue to fight the good fight for the right reasons, not his rigid duty campaign.   Not sure any of will even remember Aegon when it's all over. 

@Arthur Peres, The actor who portrayed Bran said GRRM told him Bran would be king in the end.   Martin himself said years ago with regard to the failed 5 year gap plan, that if a 12 year-old was the one to save the world, so be it.    Paraphrased.  

[Alexis-something-Rose]

Both dead. Aegon, I think, will be a casualty of the Battle for the Dawn.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

26 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Both dead. Aegon, I think, will be a casualty of the Battle for the Dawn.

Hmm, if he were to die, I think it will be by Daenaerys's hand

[Arthur Peres]

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

@Arthur Peres, The actor who portrayed Bran said GRRM told him Bran would be king in the end.   Martin himself said years ago with regard to the failed 5 year gap plan, that if a 12 year-old was the one to save the world, so be it.    Paraphrased.  

ok... suddenly not getting a final to the story does not sound so bad.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

@Arthur Peres, The actor who portrayed Bran said GRRM told him Bran would be king in the end.   Martin himself said years ago with regard to the failed 5 year gap plan, that if a 12 year-old was the one to save the world, so be it.    Paraphrased.  

5 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

@Arthur Peres, The actor who portrayed Bran said GRRM told him Bran would be king in the end.   Martin himself said years ago with regard to the failed 5 year gap plan, that if a 12 year-old was the one to save the world, so be it.    Paraphrased.  

ok... suddenly not getting a final to the story does not sound so bad.

I looked it us, it's if a 12 year old has to conquer the world then so be it.

Well that's a relief

[frenin]

6 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Is that confirmed? I thought it was just a abomination and non sense of season 8

We don't know how much of the things of S8 were true and how much was nonsense.  Bran the Broken it's true and written in stone however 

Spoiler

(talking about the 2013 meeting with D&D) It wasn’t easy for me. I didn’t want to give away my books. It’s not easy to talk about the end of my books. Every character has a different end. I told them who would be on the Iron Throne, and I told them some big twists like Hodor and “hold the door,” and Stannis’s decision to burn his daughter. We didn’t get to everybody by any means. Especially the minor characters, who may have very different endings.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

- the abomination fucked him over since Season 2, to the point that he was so warped that the story there is completely unreliable. 

Don't really think so. Bar the Ramsay bit, which was as funny as it was nonsensical,  the rest is the same Stannis without the veil of plausible deniability his fans love so much.

 

 

5 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Also unlike the abomination Stannis's ark in ASOIAF is learning to bend rather then break (albeit slowly). Him surviving and bending the knee would be a perfect end to such an ark.

He's learning to bend... so far it serves his purpose. I don't believe we'll ever see bendig to other one than death.

And I'm down with that.

 

 

[Curled Finger]

11 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I looked it us, it's if a 12 year old has to conquer the world then so be it.

Well that's a relief

Thanks Man, I was so close!  

[Alexis-something-Rose]

26 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Hmm, if he were to die, I think it will be by Daenaerys's hand

I'm probably one of a handful of people who think she will not kill him. I think he'll be on his way north when she lands.

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Aegon probably. I'm not so sure about Stannis thought, given that:

- the abomination fucked him over since Season 2, to the point that he was so warped that the story there is completely unreliable. 

- Also unlike the abomination Stannis's ark in ASOIAF is learning to bend rather then break (albeit slowly). Him surviving and bending the knee would be a perfect end to such an ark.

I enjoy Stannis, though I won't go so far as call myself a fan.  Stannis is so rigid for so long, but it's part of what I enjoy about him.  I was pretty upset with the ending I saw for Stannis because he's got so much potential.  I want Stannis to go out in a blaze of glory as a reward for doing the right thing amid so many wrong things.  Stannis is a lesson in learning how to do things better.    I love this guy separated from Melisandre and Davos, though I do enjoy the fights.  He is bending as you say, to more noble reasons for his actions.   He's beginning to get it.    

[Lord Lannister]

Can't see either of them having a happy ending.

Stannis seems destined to fall a tragic hero. Aegon was introduced too late for it to feel natural for him to steal the ending. Seems mostly a plot device to light a fire under Dany to get moving.

[Loose Bolt]

Every king  who had ruled all 7 kingdoms had been at least nominally worshipper of 7. So chances that anyone could became one without at least gaining passive support of the Faith is minimal. I suspect that neither tree worshipping warlock nor demon worshipping kinslayer could gain that support so neither Bran nor Stannis will ever wear funny hat and rest his behind in very unconfy chair.

Besides unity of Westeros is gone and (f)Aegon almost certainly will not gain enough support to make Westeros great again but I suspect that his story is similar than history of Pyrrhus. Or his forces will gain some victories but those are not enough and Golden Company will return back to Essos and (f)Aegon will die in there.

I also assume that Dany is only one with access to enough forces to unite Westeros. Or if she and her dragons would perish united Westeros would became impossible. But instead there would be many very petty kingdoms who would keep fighting against each other about dominance and available resources.

[$erPounce]

2 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

ok... suddenly not getting a final to the story does not sound so bad.

I rather believe that Bran in A Song of Ice of Fire becomes a kind of mythical creature, or rather a kind of god who is worshipped (and has administrative power).

I think the greater role of magic towards the end is very important. I don't expect Bran to be appointed as the leader in the way it happened in the TV series. Know that the showrunners do not care about the magic elements of the ASOIAF book series (they minimize it as much as possible). For example, the Starks in the TV series are not wargs.

[CamiloRP]

6 hours ago, $erPounce said:

Rickon's reign, however, will be disputed by Jon Snow when he discovers Robb's Will (Robb wanted Jon as his successor).

Robb only named Jon his heir (and we're not even sure of that, when someone asked GRRM about Jon finding out he's Robb's heir, GRRM replied "did he?") because he thought Rickon and Bran where dead. I doubt Jon would try to usurp one brother and work against the wishes of another.