Tucu Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 9 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: I'm not whataboutisming here, but Wyman did break guest right big time, along with a couple of other things, and most people know it (though they don't know about the pies). And nobody cares anymore. The same thing here. When Mance and the others are saving the maiden from the monsters, do you think anybody will care they broke guest right? I don't think so, I'll just be seen as necessary to destroy the Boltons. Wyman gave guest gifts to the soon-to-be-pies. He might be a murderer and a cannibal but he passes the guest-right test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Tucu said: Wyman gave guest gifts to the soon-to-be-pies. He might be a murderer and a cannibal but he passes the guest-right test. I don't think he killed them after they left, too many witnesses, but rather while they were in White Harbor. So yeah, that's breaking guest right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowen 747 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 The people might not care about Wayman's cannibalism but they will care about a lord commander sending the most dangerous, oathbreaking Wildling-NW brother loose on the north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Bowen 747 said: The people might not care about Wayman's cannibalism but they will care about a lord commander sending the most dangerous, oathbreaking Wildling-NW brother loose on the north. That's assuming they will now it was Jon who let him go. It was Stannis who captured him and Stannis the "burned" him. They probably won't even know he was wearing the Rattleshirt. If anybody is going to be blamed it's Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300 H&H Magnum Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 The biggest takeaway from this is that Jon is not fit to rule and lead people. He can't be trusted to uphold the law and carry out justice because he's too much of a lawbreaker himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 1 minute ago, 300 H&H Magnum said: The biggest takeaway from this is that Jon is not fit to rule and lead people. He can't be trusted to uphold the law and carry out justice because he's too much of a lawbreaker himself. Long live the God Queen!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowen 747 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Stannis will take some of the heat. No doubt of that. Jon will too, if he survives the stabbing. We've not even talked about the arrangements he made to marry a daughter of House Karstark to a wildling. That one will be very unpopular with the northern nobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 18 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: I don't think he killed them after they left, too many witnesses, but rather while they were in White Harbor. So yeah, that's breaking guest right I think he probably made a big spectacle for the guest gifts. He seems to love histrionics and it makes sense for have plenty of witnesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gramse Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Good catch with guest rights. There are theories about the Hooded man and others about Big Walder Frey as the killers. However Mance and the spearwives may be responsible for some of the deaths. But what about guest rights if they bring their own food and drink, and not drink or eat Bolton food? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrettyLittlePsycho Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 I agree with Mance and the Spearwives, but not Jon. Jon basically only said "fetch my sister". Mance could have done that without bloodshed OR without submitting to guest right by simply not eating with the Boltons. And opposed to what some people said, Jon is NOT Mances commander and thus not even indirectly responsible for his actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis-something-Rose Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 It's hard to take a thread seriously when the people accusing Jon and Mance of breaking guest right are also the ones cheering Walder Frey for the Red Wedding. Pick a lane. Jon didn't break guest right and neither did Mance for that matter. Guest right is between the host and his guest. Which Bolton did Mance and the spearwives murder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said: It's hard to take a thread seriously when the people accusing Jon and Mance of breaking guest right are also the ones cheering Walder Frey for the Red Wedding. Pick a lane. Jon didn't break guest right and neither did Mance for that matter. Guest right is between the host and his guest. Which Bolton did Mance and the spearwives murder? Jon is definitely innocent, as he didn't order Mance to do any of the things he did, Mance did them of his own volition. But I guest right goes both ways, as it is a way to ensure the safety of both. Quote When invoked, neither the guest nor the host can harm the other for the length of the guest's stay.[1] For either to do so would be to break a sacred covenant that is believed to invoke the wrath of the gods. both old and new. Even robber lords and wreckers are bound by the ancient laws of hospitality.[4] wiki They murdered Yellow Dick, a Bolton man, I'm not sure if he was protected by guest right, but I assume he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Hrm, lots to consider if you just want a fight. Winterfell is the Bolton's by conquest. Fine. I believe Abel and the spearwives were hired as entertainment, so I'm not sure that's a covered condition. Now then I don't recall any Bolton representative offering guest right in the form of Salt and Bread to anyone. Could be a breakdown of traditions, but guest right seems to be a widely accepted practice from top to bottom of Westeros. One extrapolates that the Boltons specifically didn't offer guest right to any one who visited Winterfell for the wedding. There was no offer therefore there was no violation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Another Stark Snow hate thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 11 hours ago, Son of Man said: Mance Rayder and his Wildlings were sent by Lord Commander Jon Snow to bring his married sister to the wall. Abel and the women entered Winterfell and murdered Bolton household staff. That is a violation of guest rights. Mance is a man sworn to the Night's Watch. He is under Jon's command. It was Jon who ordered him to get Arya and set him loose on the north. Jon even ordered Dolorous Edd to find the women and bring them to the wall in order to complete Mance's disguise. Mance and his crew sheltered with the Boltons and ate food from their table. They killed Bolton soldiers. Therefore, Mance, Jon, and the wildling women are all guilty of violating the sacred laws of guest rights. They sure did. Jon is a moron for sending Mance to get his sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 8 hours ago, Gramse said: Good catch with guest rights. There are theories about the Hooded man and others about Big Walder Frey as the killers. However Mance and the spearwives may be responsible for some of the deaths. But what about guest rights if they bring their own food and drink, and not drink or eat Bolton food? Roose is still the host. The horses they slaughtered and ate were his. The people cooking the food were his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 8 hours ago, 300 H&H Magnum said: The biggest takeaway from this is that Jon is not fit to rule and lead people. He can't be trusted to uphold the law and carry out justice because he's too much of a lawbreaker himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 8 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Yeah, I'm backing off, this is going to be a Stark hate shitstorm Oh, and your own post are not poorly veiled Dany hate threads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Rhaego Targaryen Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 8 hours ago, 300 H&H Magnum said: The biggest takeaway from this is that Jon is not fit to rule and lead people. He can't be trusted to uphold the law and carry out justice because he's too much of a lawbreaker himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said: Oh, and your own post are not poorly veiled Dany hate threads! No. I don't hate Dany like at all, I think she's a fundamentally good person. However that doesn't mean she doesn't fuck up big time, especially in Meereen. "The other people were against her" isn't an excuse. She had dragons, she had Unsullied, and yet she fled Meereen for her live letting Hizdahr take power in her stead. Had it not been for Barristan and Shavepate, Viserion and Rhaegal would be dead, think about that for a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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