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Lady Winter Rose

If not Dany, then who?

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If you think Dany isn't suitable for throne of Westeros:

1) why does Martin write her chapters?

2) who would be better choice for the throne?

 

Also, want to point few things... if you think Daenerys is too much Mary Sue, isn't Martin to blame for that characterization? Would you still love Martin as writer if he booted Dany out of story?

Edited by Lady Winter Rose

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1) Why did he write Ned´s chapters ? Because he is telling a story and it doesn´t matter if the POVs will live or die or be successful/important in the end.

2) I´m still hoping for independant kingdoms. The "union" was forced by the Targaryen dragons and I hope it will crumble in the end. The cultural differences are just too much to work in the long run (North, Dorne, Iron Isles...).

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First off, lets clarify, my first comment as just a joke, Dany is a capable leader and a likable character, IMHO. 

I think she's as capable as most characters, maybe even the most capable if you exclude characters that couldn't rule not because they are incapable but because they are morally incapable, such as Stannis, Tywin, etc.

But I doubt that the series will end with the rightful heir getting the throne, what message does it send? is monarchy good? are royals inherently better? I don't think so, and I doubt George does.

 

1 hour ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

1) why does Martin write her chapters?

This makes little sense, why did George wrote Robb's storyline if he wasn't intended to be king? Lets also point out that in general when George establishes a plan it doesn't come to be, boiled down to it's very core, Dany's plan has been 'Be the queen of Westeros' since Viserys died, over four books ago.

 

1 hour ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

2) who would be better choice for the throne?

The better choice would be no throne, no monarchy.

If we are talking candidates I think my fave is Mance (he will never be tho); Edmure genuinely cares about his people and wasn't a bad lord, he needs to get a little wiser tho; Tyrion was a capable enough hand, tho now I don't know, he's becoming an absolute asshole; the Blackfish seems like a good choice, as do Garlan and WIllam Tyrell, tho we know little of them; any Dornish ruler would bring Dornish law, which is good; and Jon would be a good enough ruler for this list if he was more compromising; Sansa legitimately has a good heart, and she's been getting smarter.

If we are talking narratively, I think a great choice for queen would be Myrcella. We are conditioned as readers to dismiss all Lannisters, specially Cersei's children, but Myrcella is good hearted and smart, if she had good enough council she would be an okey queen, specially if she takes Dornish influence to court. Making Cersei and Tywin win by her staying in the throne would be a good GRRM twist, tho I doubt it'll happen.

Edit: I forgot about the more logical narrative choices: Jon, Aegon, Stannis and maybe even Sansa (you could argue that she's been shaped to rule)

 

Edited by CamiloRP

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My personal opinion, I think the context is more important then the King itself. Of the current 6 contenders (Jon, Dany, fAegon, Stannis, Euron and Cersei) as well as Bran, 5 of them (Jon, Dany, fAegon, Stannis and Bran) have it in them to be good Kings. That being said as Westeros's history showed us, a good King doesn't mean shit as a bad one could easily follow and fuck it all up.

So I think that Westeros is going to turn into a more centralized Kingdom but with checks and balances for the King. As such I don't see Dany being the one to do it, as with the dragons checks and balances are a myth. Stannis is off the table because his ark is about responsibility and fighting the Walkers, so that leaves us with Jon, fAegon or Bran. FAegon will unfortunately probably burn, so in actuality it's Jon or Bran, thought if I were to choose I would prefer Stannis or fAegon.

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2 hours ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

If you think Dany isn't suitable for throne of Westeros:

1) why does Martin write her chapters?

2) who would be better choice for the throne?

 

Also, want to point few things... if you think Daenerys is too much Mary Sue, isn't Martin to blame for that characterization? Would you still love Martin as writer if he booted Dany out of story?

I do think she is suitable for the throne of Westeros.  

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36 minutes ago, The Young Maester said:

A great council might be held. There they will decide what laws and regulation they want to pass into the newly made monarchy, and theyll start electing kings.

Fuck no. Ever hear of the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth. Elective Monarchies are terrible systems slowly but surely leading to decentralized systems were the nobles hold all the power and constantly biker and never actually do anything. It's worse then Westeros.

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1 minute ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Fuck no. Ever hear of the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth. Elective Monarchies are terrible systems slowly but surely leading to decentralized systems were the nobles hold all the power and constantly biker and never actually do anything. It's worse then Westeros.

To be fair Polish Commonwealth ended by external factors and invasion of foreings from 4 diferent sides, Sweeden, Russia, Prussia and Austria, Westerors is on the verge o breaking after 2 civil wars in a roll and rushing fast to a third one... Westeros kind of looks worse.

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1 minute ago, Arthur Peres said:

To be fair Polish Commonwealth ended by external factors and invasion of foreings from 4 diferent sides, Sweeden, Russia, Prussia and Austria, Westerors is on the verge o breaking after 2 civil wars in a roll and rushing fast to a third one... Westeros kind of looks worse.

The Commonwealth only got into it's situation due to it's system.

The first major crisis in it's existence, The Deluge should have been a minor Cossack revolt, but due to the aristocracy installing 3 different generals as commanders of the same army at the same time, they managed to lose half their army to rebels leaving them open to invasion from Russia and Sweden.

After the Deluge finally ended, the King, Jon Casimir tried to reform the system but the nobles started a civil war, crippling the country even more then the Deluge did.

A couple of decades after the neighboring powers realized that the system was so flawed they could effortlessly install puppets as Kings, due tot he fact that between the death of the King and the election of a new one there was no central authority. These puppets made sure to cripple the PLC.

By the time the Polish decided to reform, in the 18th century, it was too late and the partitions happened.

So yeah a terrible system that fucked up one of the strongest powers in Renaissance Europe

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1 hour ago, The Young Maester said:

A great council might be held. There they will decide what laws and regulation they want to pass into the newly made monarchy, and theyll start electing kings.

A Holy Roman Empire-ish nightmare?? 

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I realice I didn't reply to the latter part.

 

3 hours ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

Also, want to point few things... if you think Daenerys is too much Mary Sue, isn't Martin to blame for that characterization?

Yes, if that was the case that would be absolutely a wrong on George's part. Tho she isn't a Mary Sue, she's not good at everything, she has many flaws, and TBH, she's lacking in many things, she's not a good fighter, has no special knowledge, and isn't great at anything. She's a decent strategist, an okayish ruler, she's weirdly skilled at languages, and has dragons, that's about it. Anyone calling her a Mary Sue is either sexist, a Dany-hater or both.

 

3 hours ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

Would you still love Martin as writer if he booted Dany out of story?

I mean, he 'booted' Ned, Robb, Cat, Quentyn and presumably Jon.

(I know Quentyn wasn't such a big character, but his death does make his whole story fucking pointless)

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29 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

Anyone calling her a Mary Sue is either sexist, a Dany-hater or both.

Try telling that to community. Apparently, girls can't be sexist (even though they can), and apparently much hate came from women. I haven't been here for a while, but I remember some of that hate gone towards Emilia Clarke.

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1 minute ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

Try telling that to community. Apparently, girls can't be sexist (even though they can), and apparently much hate came from women. I haven't been here for a while, but I remember some of that hate gone towards Emilia Clarke.

Yeah I know, it's sad really

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How can you label a character as a "Mary Sue" or a "Gary Stu" before a story is over?  How a character's story ends is at least as important as the journey there, in terms of labeling them as such.

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6 minutes ago, Ser Leftwich said:

How can you label a character as a "Mary Sue" or a "Gary Stu" before a story is over?  How a character's story ends is at least as important as the journey there, in terms of labeling them as such.

I wasn't the one making that assumption. When I was back here very long time ago, I seen pretty much hate towards Dany in books and reasoning was that she was too perfect, while Tyrion was getting great praise.

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1 hour ago, CamiloRP said:

Anyone calling her a Mary Sue is either sexist, a Dany-hater or both.

Or completely oblivious to what a Mary Sue is. Now I will admit there are some slight elements of power fantasy with Dany and a bit of her having an easier road, but nowhere even near to even be able to compare to a Mary Sue.

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