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Can you help Bowen Marsh clean up Jon's mess?


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9 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

It wasn't disagreement. Bowen Marsh had to stop Jon from raiding the Boltons. 

I'm not worried as much about osthbtrsking. Bowen wasn't either. He was only doing what he could to stop the raid. Arya is not worth going to war over.  

Oh those poor, sweet, woman hunting, skin flaying Boltons. No matter how you look at it, the Starks are just morally superior to the scheming sociopathic Boltons and the slimy, grasping Freys. The Starks didn't ask to get involved in a war with the Lannisters; the illegitimate bastard king took their Lords head off. They were obligated to respond to that injustice, their bannermen were obligated to serve their liegelord. The Boltons betrayed their leige, and the Freys violated guest right. No way around it. The Boltons and Freys need to be overthrown.

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2 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

Oh those poor, sweet, woman hunting, skin flaying Boltons. No matter how you look at it, the Starks are just morally superior to the scheming sociopathic Boltons and the slimy, grasping Freys. The Starks didn't ask to get involved in a war with the Lannisters; the illegitimate bastard king took their Lords head off. They were obligated to respond to that injustice, their bannermen were obligated to serve their liegelord. The Boltons betrayed their leige, and the Freys violated guest right. No way around it. The Boltons and Freys need to be overthrown.

Maybe they do but not by the NW.  

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On 12/31/2020 at 11:51 PM, TheLastWolf said:

I'm not asking anyone to delete anything. Just that when all of the dumpsterfire has been exhausted, please don't bump it back up. Respecting other's opinions is different from spouting irrationally biased hatred 

Here's a thought. Stop telling people what threads they can and cannot bump up. Here's another suggestion: If you don't like the thread that is being bumped up then don't read it.

 

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3 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Maybe they do but not by the NW.  

Now I agree with that. I don't think Jon was doing the right thing by publically declaring his intent to break his oath and ride South. I understand why he was doing it though, and I ask all the skeptics here to consider whether they would have done things differently in Jon's shoes. My guess is they probably wouldn't.

Overall, though, Bowen Marsh didn't solve any of the Watch's problems by murdering Jon. He just created new ones on top of the problems they already had. There's no way anyone can help Bowen fix Jon's mess, partly because Jon's long term policy goals were a net benefit to the Watch and partly because killing Jon is itself causing a huge, bloody mess.

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9 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

Now I agree with that. I don't think Jon was doing the right thing by publically declaring his intent to break his oath and ride South. I understand why he was doing it though, and I ask all the skeptics here to consider whether they would have done things differently in Jon's shoes. My guess is they probably wouldn't.

Thing is, he wasn't. As per usual Jon has the communication skills of a lobotomized eel, but the fact of the matter is that Ramsay was issuing an ultimatum which the watch couldn't fulfill. Jon wasn't getting involved in the affairs of men, he was defending the Watch from an outside threat.

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8 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Thing is, he wasn't. As per usual Jon has the communication skills of a lobotomized eel, but the fact of the matter is that Ramsay was issuing an ultimatum which the watch couldn't fulfill. Jon wasn't getting involved in the affairs of men, he was defending the Watch from an outside threat.

I think that's a whole different can of worms, in that I don't think Ramsay wrote that letter. The Boltons are many things, but Roose at least would not have permitted that letter being sent. I just think the Pink Letter is awfully conveniant for the Anti-Jon Snow Conspiracy. Regardless, Jon reacted exactly how whoever wrote the letter expected him to act, and I think he did have alternatives to the course of action he took.

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Just now, Nathan Stark said:

I think that's a whole different can of worms, in that I don't think Ramsay wrote that letter. The Boltons are many things, but Roose at least would not have permitted that letter being sent. I just think the Pink Letter is awfully conveniant for the Anti-Jon Snow Conspiracy. Regardless, Jon reacted exactly how whoever wrote the letter expected him to act, and I think he did have alternatives to the course of action he took.

That's true, Jon did a massive whoopsie (or maybe just took the opportunity). Still it's more of a testament of him doing something stupid rather then betraying his vows

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2 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Thing is, he wasn't. As per usual Jon has the communication skills of a lobotomized eel, but the fact of the matter is that Ramsay was issuing an ultimatum which the watch couldn't fulfill. Jon wasn't getting involved in the affairs of men, he was defending the Watch from an outside threat.

Ramsay gave that ultimatum because Jon was not minding his own business.  He got involved with Arya, Ramsay, and Roose.  The pink letter would never have happened if Jon had only minded his own business and allowed Arya to take care of herself.

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3 hours ago, El Guapo said:

Here's a thought. Stop telling people what threads they can and cannot bump up. Here's another suggestion: If you don't like the thread that is being bumped up then don't read it.

 

The hypocrisy of that! You don't read my post asking people not to bump shit up and ignore it. That's what you are doing anyway, continue. All the best 

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6 hours ago, Skahaz mo Kandaq said:

We should get down to brass tacks.  The mess at Castle Black and the wall is too big for Lord Bowen to address on his own.  A shoutout to Thorne and the other leaders at the wall will be the best.  Pyke is a good man to get help from if Thorne is dead.

I am pretty sure no one anywhere else in this fandom is needling this hyper-specific point about the mess Jon made at the Wall, except these 20+ accounts on this forum that obsess over Bowen and Ramsay and Dany. Literally, there is one person in the world who stans those three. I smell catfish.

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3 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I am pretty sure no one anywhere else in this fandom is needling this hyper-specific point about the mess Jon made at the Wall, except these 20+ accounts on this forum that obsess over Bowen and Ramsay and Dany. Literally, there is one person in the world who stans those three. I smell catfish.

Don’t forget the martyrdom of St. Janos Slynt.

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14 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

The hypocrisy of that! You don't read my post asking people not to bump shit up and ignore it. That's what you are doing anyway, continue. All the best 

You don't get to decide what threads get to be bumped up. If you don't like the thread don't read it or post in it. It is that simple.

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