Alyn Oakenfist Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 21 minutes ago, King17 said: I can't really help marsh now he should've assassinated jon before he let the wildlings through the wall. I mean given how long the conspiracy must have took, he clearly wanted too, however if he had done it he would have doomed the Watch. Jon did what needed to be done to fight the Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King17 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 50 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: I mean given how long the conspiracy must have took, he clearly wanted too, however if he had done it he would have doomed the Watch. Jon did what needed to be done to fight the Others. I disagree letting the wildlings through was oath breaking and Jon Shouldn't have done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Stark Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, King17 said: I disagree letting the wildlings through was oath breaking and Jon Shouldn't have done it. No. The Others are the more important issue. The wildlings are only men, and the NW is supposed to to serve the "realms of men." If the oath disqualifies some men in favor of other men simply because of geographical difference, than it's not much of an oath at all, and not worth upholding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 5 minutes ago, King17 said: I disagree letting the wildlings through was oath breaking Where? Read the Night's Watch vows, and show me where exactly Jon swears to fight wildlings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King17 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 Just now, Alyn Oakenfist said: Where? Read the Night's Watch vows, and show me where exactly Jon swears to fight wildlings. I am using historical precedence the watch has fought both others and wildlings the wildlings are an enemy of the watch and Jon let them through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 Just now, King17 said: I am using historical precedence the watch has fought both others and wildlings the wildlings are an enemy of the watch and Jon let them through. Not really relevant for the oaths, then, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King17 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 Just now, Alyn Oakenfist said: Not really relevant for the oaths, then, is it? I mean it kinda is as the realms of men historically hasn't included the wildlings and the wildlings are considered a threat to the realms of men anyway I won't comment any further as I don't want to hijack the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Young Maester Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 Somehow this thread is still kicking. And im surprised to see that people still believe that the wildlings should’ve been left on the other side of the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Nathan Stark said: No. The Others are the more important issue. The wildlings are only men, and the NW is supposed to to serve the "realms of men." If the oath disqualifies some men in favor of other men simply because of geographical difference, than it's not much of an oath at all, and not worth upholding. 1 hour ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Where? Read the Night's Watch vows, and show me where exactly Jon swears to fight wildlings. You are both right. Quote We never knew! But we must have known once. The Night's Watch has forgotten its true purpose, Tarly. You don't build a wall seven hundred feet high to keep savages in skins from stealing women. The Wall was made to guard the realms of men … and not against other men, which is all the wildlings are when you come right down to it. Too many years, Tarly, too many hundreds and thousands of years. We lost sight of the true enemy. And now he's here, but we don't know how to fight him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 2 hours ago, King17 said: I mean it kinda is as the realms of men historically hasn't included the wildlings and the wildlings are considered a threat to the realms of men anyway I won't comment any further as I don't want to hijack the thread. I think that Mormont knows best. Quote We never knew! But we must have known once. The Night's Watch has forgotten its true purpose, Tarly. You don't build a wall seven hundred feet high to keep savages in skins from stealing women. The Wall was made to guard the realms of men … and not against other men, which is all the wildlings are when you come right down to it. Too many years, Tarly, too many hundreds and thousands of years. We lost sight of the true enemy. And now he's here, but we don't know how to fight him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James West Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 18 hours ago, The Young Maester said: Somehow this thread is still kicking. And im surprised to see that people still believe that the wildlings should’ve been left on the other side of the wall. There are very good reasons to leave them on the other side. More people to feed will only shorten the supplies. The Wall was designed to stop an army. It could stop an army of wightified wildlings because that was what the Wall was designed to do. The wildlings are not reliable allies. They were ready to abandon the Wall and follow Jon to attack Ramsay. They will cause more harm than good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James West Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 21 hours ago, King17 said: I can't really help marsh now he should've assassinated jon before he let the wildlings through the wall. It was a mistake to make him lord commander in the first place. Samwell should take the blame for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King17 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 8 minutes ago, James West said: It was a mistake to make him lord commander in the first place. Samwell should take the blame for that. True. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltedmalted Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 hour ago, James West said: Samwell should take the blame for that. No, the raven should. 1 hour ago, James West said: It could stop an army of wightified wildlings because that was what the Wall was designed to do. Does the pomegrenate know that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Young Maester Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 6 hours ago, James West said: There are very good reasons to leave them on the other side. More people to feed will only shorten the supplies. The Wall was designed to stop an army. It could stop an army of wightified wildlings because that was what the Wall was designed to do. The wildlings are not reliable allies. They were ready to abandon the Wall and follow Jon to attack Ramsay. They will cause more harm than good. Ok I think I understand now. Moral lesson of the story is. When a common enemy seeks the destruction of both you and your enemy. You should instead side against your enemy and let them be slaughtered by the common enemy you both shared. Maybe we should go back in time and remind both London and Paris that maybe they should turn on each other rather than fight their common enemy whom threatens to make a European hegemon. I bow to your ultimate wisdom . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Wadsworth Longfellow Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 On 11/18/2020 at 7:38 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said: Put yourself in BM's shoes. Jon created immeasurable damage at the wall. How would you clean up Jon's mess? Very carefully. At least he had the guts to kill Jon. That's step #1 to get the Order back in order. I would follow it up with sending a message of explanation to Ramsay Bolton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Wadsworth Longfellow Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 On 11/24/2020 at 3:38 AM, Pontius Pilate said: I would have pretended to go along with Jon's plan and even suggest to take all of the remaining Stannis loyalists with him. Wait for them to leave and then send a message to Ramsay. Disavow Jon's decisions on the message and hope to god Ramsay buys it. The Baratheon men will do as the Dragonstone garrison was about to do. Make peace with the winning side and give up Selyse, Shireen, and Mel. It's an interesting turnabout. The men on Dragonstone were about to sell out King Viserys the 3rd and Princess Daenerys to Stannis. His own men are now going to sell Selyse and Shireen to Roose. It is rather ironic isn't it. Weather destroyed the Targaryen fleet. What if a snowstorm destroys the Baratheon army. Ironic indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Wadsworth Longfellow Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 On 11/19/2020 at 6:41 AM, Lady Topspin said: Jon made too big of a disaster but at least Marsh took the first step in getting things sorted when he ended Jon's tenure. Marsh is too honorable a man for what I am about to suggest but here it is. Kill the giant and blame him for killing Jon Snow. His guys may have to embellish the physical damage to the corpse to make it believable. They will all need to get their stories in sync to make it work. It could easily go wrong if just one of the men say the wrong thing to the wrong person. The wildlings aren't stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltedmalted Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 2 hours ago, The Young Maester said: Maybe we should go back in time and remind both London and Paris that maybe they should turn on each other rather than fight their common enemy whom threatens to make a European hegemon. A better comparison would be the USSR and Britain. If Britain believed Hitler would be no threat then there would not have been an alliance with Stalin. Bowen Marsh does not believe the Others can cross the Wall, so the wildlings (dead or alive) do not matter. 24 minutes ago, H Wadsey Longfellow said: The wildlings aren't stupid. And they wouldn't believe the Nigth Watch anyway. Dragonstone men are not giving up. The soldiers who followed him North would naturally be the most dogged ones. Boltons canot make them submit unless they defeat Stannis first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pontius Pilate Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 On 2/28/2021 at 10:20 PM, saltedmalted said: Dragonstone men are not giving up. The soldiers who followed him North would naturally be the most dogged ones. Patrek was not the only one looking for a reward. The defeat and death of Stannis will force them to make peace with Roose because they don't want to die in the north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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