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James Fenimore Cooper XXII

Can you help Bowen Marsh clean up Jon's mess?

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18 hours ago, Buried Treasure said:

Selyse and Melisandre are guests of the NW. How do you propose Marsh placate the Boltons whilst they are resident at Castle Black?

 

Bowen Marsh can't extract the NW from politics because the Watch's need for aid is inherently political. It wasn't Jon that created that situation - Maester Aemon wrote to all the players in the Wot5K, and it was a result of the wider political situation that it was only Stannis that responded.

Yep, every action is political, wanting to distance yourself from politics is one of the most political actions there are. Especially in a government funded organism like the Night's Watch.

 

Edit: and no one wanted to be neutral, most just wanted to support the winning side (which would be the smart choice if the loosing side didn't have twice their men and was sleeping next door).

Edited by CamiloRP

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Selyse cannot shelter forever at the wall.  The NW must stand aside and let what remains of the Stannis loyalists and the Boltons settle their own differences.  
 

Jon left a mess for Bowen and company to clean up.  The distance between Winterfell and Castle Black could give him the time to reorganize after Jon’s disaster.  A carefully written message to Ramsay and proof of Jon’s death should start the reorganization.  Perhaps Thorne could serve as the interim lord commander.  

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On 11/22/2020 at 10:15 PM, James West said:

Avoid doing anything rash.  Let the wildlings do what they're going to and wait for the results.  Make peace with Ramsay if he wins.  Do otherwise if the wildlings come out on top. 

So do what Tywin did during the rebellion.  Wait for the results before picking sides.  His honor won't allow that.  He can't approve a wildling attack on the north. 

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On 11/30/2020 at 11:29 PM, Big P said:

So do what Tywin did during the rebellion.  Wait for the results before picking sides.  His honor won't allow that.  He can't approve a wildling attack on the north. 

That works well in the game of thrones but our Bowen Marsh doesn't have a deceitful bone in his body. 

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On 11/18/2020 at 7:38 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Put yourself in BM's shoes.  Jon created immeasurable damage at the wall.  How would you clean up Jon's mess? 

Which mess? The free folk inside the wall armed and dangerous .

Stannis' army and allies ?

The rangers whose loyalty is to Jon ?

The Red Witch?

With what I know of BM it can not be done .

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1 hour ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Maybe the situation isn't as simple as Jon=needed to die, Bowen=correct?

Maybe Jon and Bowen both botched it all up and could have done things differently?

Idk just a thought. 

This makes perfect sense to me. I've been thinking a little on this and I agree with the quoted post.

Jon put the Watch in a vice, but by everything we can see Bowen don't have the means to do much else next. If Jon was assassinated and Boltons & Co showed up the next day with a deal already done with Bowen, things could be salvaged by Marsh. But right now it feels like Jon messed up, and then Bowen took out the only person who could salvage the situation.

So yeah, the Watch is probably going to get destroyed and I wouldn't be suprised if everyone who isn't a Wildling and don't get out of town fast enough follows the same route south.

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On 11/18/2020 at 7:38 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Put yourself in BM's shoes.  Jon created immeasurable damage at the wall.  How would you clean up Jon's mess? 

He will not be able to do much if he gets killed soon after the death of Jon.  Aliser Thorne and the other leaders will need to help out.  The crows can reorganize themselves because they have discipline.  It's the wildlings who will present the big problem.  It will be for the best if the wildling raiding party were to perish on the King's Road. 

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On 11/18/2020 at 7:38 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Put yourself in BM's shoes.  Jon created immeasurable damage at the wall.  How would you clean up Jon's mess? 

The Free Folk's reaction to the execution will be the factor.  Everything will be fine if they go back to their posts.  Chaos will ensue if they attempt to get even for Jon's death. 

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Deserting to Beyond the Wall is probably his only hope of not immediately dying by either, wildlings, Melisandre's fires, or loyalist black brothers. Good thing Jon made him keep the tunnel opened, should come in handy after he mutineed.

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17 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

You won't find any remaining loyalists among the brothers. Not after what Jon admitted to in the Shield Hall.  

I do seem to recall most of the brothers voting for him

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7 minutes ago, Lion of the West said:

I'm a little rusty, but before or after the Shield Hall event?

Before,

But most of those who voted for him were green boys right?

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1 hour ago, Lion of the West said:

I'm a little rusty, but before or after the Shield Hall event?

 

54 minutes ago, Dragomir said:

Before,

But most of those who voted for him were green boys right?

Yes, the election was held before the Shield Hall event.  Those same people will not be supportive of what he did. 

 

5 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I do seem to recall most of the brothers voting for him

 

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8 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

 

Yes, the election was held before the Shield Hall event.  Those same people will not be supportive of what he did. 

 

 

Some but not all.

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50 minutes ago, Lady Topspin said:

It could work alright if only Bowen Marsh is a dishonest man. 

Ya. Sadly he's a honest loyal brave pomegranate 

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On 11/26/2020 at 5:19 PM, Aline de Gavrillac said:

You suggests something which is out of character for Bowen Marsh.  He is not a person who deceives others.  What he will tell Ramsay [if he gets the chance] is the truth.  You should be right on the Queen's men.  They won't be much longer.  The Stannis cause has sunk and they are not going down with him. 

Bowen Marsh could do it because he must.  It's far easier to do this.  The assassination was harder on him. 

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