James Fenimore Cooper XXII Posted December 31, 2020 Author Share Posted December 31, 2020 On 12/16/2020 at 12:06 AM, BRANDON GREYSTARK said: Which mess? The free folk inside the wall armed and dangerous . Stannis' army and allies ? The rangers whose loyalty is to Jon ? The Red Witch? With what I know of BM it can not be done . The mess that Jon created when he sent Mance Rayder to get his sister away from the Boltons. That's enough to start a war. Jon should have stayed out of it. And yes, Jon created and left a mess which may be too big for any one person to clean up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 However much Bowen Marsh may have disapproved of Jon, nothing good was going to come from killing him, because a house divided against itself will not stand. Bowen Marsh has in fact, caused a huge mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Fenimore Cooper XXII Posted December 31, 2020 Author Share Posted December 31, 2020 Just now, SeanF said: However much Bowen Marsh may have disapproved of Jon, nothing good was going to come from killing him, because a house divided against itself will not stand. Bowen Marsh has in fact, caused a huge mess. Nothing good was going to come from Jon sending a man of the watch to bring his sister to him. Jon dragged the night's watch into a conflict with the Boltons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Oh my God, is this dumpsterfire of a thread still going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said: Nothing good was going to come from Jon sending a man of the watch to bring his sister to him. Jon dragged the night's watch into a conflict with the Boltons. Eradicating the Boltons, root and stem, is the ethically correct thing to do. They were guilty of treason towards their commander, regicide, and the murder of thousands of Northern soldiers. Any adult with a weapon should be willing to enforce the codes of honour the Boltons (and Freys) violated. And, yes, in Jon’s shoes, I too would try to save my sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Fenimore Cooper XXII Posted December 31, 2020 Author Share Posted December 31, 2020 18 minutes ago, SeanF said: Eradicating the Boltons, root and stem, is the ethically correct thing to do. They were guilty of treason towards their commander, regicide, and the murder of thousands of Northern soldiers. Any adult with a weapon should be willing to enforce the codes of honour the Boltons (and Freys) violated. And, yes, in Jon’s shoes, I too would try to save my sister. Then there is no point for you and I to continue this exchange. We are not going to be able to change each other's mind on this topic. we are both entitled to our opinion. It's alright. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loose Bolt Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 2 hours ago, SeanF said: Eradicating the Boltons, root and stem, is the ethically correct thing to do. They were guilty of treason towards their commander, regicide, and the murder of thousands of Northern soldiers. Any adult with a weapon should be willing to enforce the codes of honour the Boltons (and Freys) violated. And, yes, in Jon’s shoes, I too would try to save my sister. Actually heroic Roose B executed a traitor who had rebelled against Iron Throne and all those people who supported his rebellion were filthy rebels so they were outlaws or anyone could kill them without any legal consequences. Besides nowadays Roose is Warder of the North in the name of Tommen I so anyone who would dare to rise his hand against him would be a criminal. There is also a possibility that armies of houses Bolton and Frey will win Battle for the Dawn. Or Roose could be a hero who saves the world:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said: Actually heroic Roose B executed a traitor who had rebelled against Iron Throne and all those people who supported his rebellion were filthy rebels so they were outlaws or anyone could kill them without any legal consequences. Besides nowadays Roose is Warder of the North in the name of Tommen I so anyone who would dare to rise his hand against him would be a criminal. There is also a possibility that armies of houses Bolton and Frey will win Battle for the Dawn. Or Roose could be a hero who saves the world:) Tommen is an (innocent) usurper, as was Joffrey; Roose gave fealty to Robb and joined the revolt, before betraying him. He is a raping savage, as is Ramsay, and neither he nor the Freys will save the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 3 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Oh my God, is this dumpsterfire of a thread still going? Mods please do something, I beg you! Everytime I let out a deep sigh some hater gives CPR to topics like these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Loose Bolt said: Actually heroic Roose B executed a traitor who had rebelled against Iron Throne and all those people who supported his rebellion were filthy rebels so they were outlaws or anyone could kill them without any legal consequences. Besides nowadays Roose is Warder of the North in the name of Tommen I so anyone who would dare to rise his hand against him would be a criminal. This seems to be the actual Westerosi viewpoint: Quote "The Twins took up the Young Wolf's cause as well," he reminded the Freys. "Then you betrayed him. That makes you twice as treacherous as Piper." And it's what actually happened. Bolton betrayed his liege after betraying the crown. They took part in one of the worst crimes imaginable in Westeros, two if you count kingslaying. What Roose did to other northerner lords after and before the Red Wedding and what Ramsay did to Hornwood and Winterfell shouldn't be forgotten. Ramsay is a madman, an absolute psycho that hunts, rapes and tortures women for fun. That farce of a marriage to Jeyne Poole is undoubtedly a crime against the Old Gods. He threaten the NW, he threaten Jon Snow, he threaten a whole bunch more people. We can debate if he should have announced the attack or not, we can debate if it was 'legal' or not (I'm not sure tho, so it would be a boring debate). But the ethical thing to do, the good thing to do, was for Jon to march on Winterfell. Quote There is also a possibility that armies of houses Bolton and Frey will win Battle for the Dawn. Or Roose could be a hero who saves the world:) There's a bigger possibility that Jon and the Freefolk would do this things, so Marsh should be executed, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, TheLastWolf said: Mods please do something, I beg you! Everytime I let out a deep sigh some hater gives CPR to topics like these. And why do I get drawn in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 9 hours ago, SeanF said: Eradicating the Boltons, root and stem, is the ethically correct thing to do. They were guilty of treason towards their commander, regicide, and the murder of thousands of Northern soldiers. Any adult with a weapon should be willing to enforce the codes of honour the Boltons (and Freys) violated. And, yes, in Jon’s shoes, I too would try to save my sister. There is nothing ethical about this proposal from you. Northern soldiers getting killed during war time is no justification to eradicate the Freys or the Boltons. Fat Walda and most of the Freys don’t deserve to be punished. Fat Walda took a side in the feud but that is to be expected from a civilian. Unlike Jon Snow, Fat Walda is not required to be neutral. Would Arya, Jon, and Bran betray the Starks if Ned was about to do something unethical? I think not. They would support the family even if they have doubts. That’s the situation for poor Roslyn. Think about this. A Stark like Arya, or Jon, would commit the same taboo to save the family. We must not forget. Robb Stark betrayed House Frey. It was Catelyn, Jaime, and Tywin who really started this war. Walder and Roose just got dragged in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 5 hours ago, TheLastWolf said: Mods please do something, I beg you! Everytime I let out a deep sigh some hater gives CPR to topics like these. Please show a little maturity. There will always be fans of the books who will not agree with you. As much as I dislike some of your posted opinions and tantrums, I have never asked the mods to delete any of them. So you don’t like what this OP has to say. It’s easier for you to ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowen 747 Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 On 12/17/2020 at 11:49 PM, Rose of Red Lake said: Maybe the situation isn't as simple as Jon=needed to die, Bowen=correct? Maybe Jon and Bowen both botched it all up and could have done things differently? Idk just a thought. Perhaps. It won't be the last mistake from the human side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 10 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said: Please show a little maturity. There will always be fans of the books who will not agree with you. As much as I dislike some of your posted opinions and tantrums, I have never asked the mods to delete any of them. So you don’t like what this OP has to say. It’s easier for you to ignore. I'm not asking anyone to delete anything. Just that when all of the dumpsterfire has been exhausted, please don't bump it back up. Respecting other's opinions is different from spouting irrationally biased hatred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowen 747 Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 16 hours ago, SeanF said: Tommen is an (innocent) usurper, as was Joffrey; Roose gave fealty to Robb and joined the revolt, before betraying him. He is a raping savage, as is Ramsay, and neither he nor the Freys will save the world. Roose was in the same awkward position as Lady Dustin. They had to join or else face the anger of the Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rondo Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 On 12/31/2020 at 12:55 PM, Widowmaker 811 said: It was Catelyn, Jaime, and Tywin who really started this war. Walder and Roose just got dragged in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 I counted. There is one person on this thread who has about 20 different accounts. The style of writing and typing and same dumb arguments has almost no variation. Look at the spacing and you’ll see the pattern. Don’t try to edit, I have receipts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine Sedai Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 On 12/31/2020 at 3:21 AM, SeanF said: However much Bowen Marsh may have disapproved of Jon, nothing good was going to come from killing him, because a house divided against itself will not stand. Bowen Marsh has in fact, caused a huge mess. It wasn't disagreement. Bowen Marsh had to stop Jon from raiding the Boltons. I'm not worried as much about osthbtrsking. Bowen wasn't either. He was only doing what he could to stop the raid. Arya is not worth going to war over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 On 12/31/2020 at 12:56 PM, TheLastWolf said: Mods please do something, I beg you! Everytime I let out a deep sigh some hater gives CPR to topics like these. I think it's time to start a thread on "Did Catelyn Molest Jon Snow?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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