Jump to content

Ned and Barbrey


CamiloRP

Recommended Posts

On 11/19/2020 at 1:31 PM, Curled Finger said:

We never actually read that Ned was promised or betrothed to anyone and that may have been the case.   I believe the Starks have always given a son to the NW, so Benjen was never on the table for marriage, but with Brandon off to marry the lady of Riverrun and Lyanna scheduled to marry the Lord of Storms End Rickard would almost have to marry Ned to a local Northern woman.  The politics don't make any sense if not.   Starks only add to their wealth investing in a northern marriage.   I would think they would have to, particularly in light of all the southron marriages.   There was no one left to sacrifice to the politics of the south.    We know Lysa was shopped by the Lannisters for Jamie so why wasn't Ned introduced here, too?   

Rickard didn't think that far ahead. Just look at the match between Robert and Lyanna.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

Which makes Lord Hightower's decision to allow Jorah to marry Lynesse even more baffling. The Hightowers control a city while House Mormont only has a small island with 62 fighting men.

Yes, that's effin' insane

(the 62 men is only in the show tho)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/20/2020 at 9:36 AM, CamiloRP said:

I took it to mean that Rickard shut him down, don't know why.

Yeah, it's certainly no stretch of the imagination to think he could have known he had no shot of marrying his daughter to a Stark.  Thus, he made the best match he could.

Quote

I think she's on her own side. The Dustins/Ryswells where likely kings before the Starks (which is pointed at by the crown in the banner, and the fact that the barrow is believed to be the tomb of an old king). She ants control of the Barrow, which is pointed by her not re marring in sixteen years. She might want to take the Ryswell/Dustin to their former glory.

This could very well be true.  I think Barbrey was playing up her hatred for the Starks with Reek/Theon because she thought there'd be a good chance he'd relay it to Ramsay and/or Roose.  Always good to have them believing she's with them.  Also, even if Barbrey does dislike the Starks it still doesn't mean she'd actually rebel against them.  I think she's trying to decide how to play things.

Quote

I'd like to read that theory! Tho I think that the crypts have only one door, so they're of no use to get into Winterfell. I think she wanted to go to the crypts to check the veracity of Wex's story.

I agree about the crypts.  I think Barbrey was checking for evidence in the crypts that Bran, et al. spent some time there.  If she thinks there are Stark heirs still alive it would definitely factor into how she proceeds.  Does she stay on Roose's relatively good side...or does she actively oppose the Boltons by siding with the Manderly's?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lynesse also seemed like a problem child in some ways... maybe her father wasn't that fond of her lol?

 

In truth Hightower had so many children that no match could be thrown out of hand; Mormont was an anointed knight and lord of Bear Isle in his own right. It's not necessarily a bad match at all on paper, and it's what his daughter wanted after all. Sure it's not some great alliance but it's not the worst thing to have a foothold in other kingdoms of Westeros, no?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/18/2020 at 7:46 PM, CamiloRP said:

In ADWD's chapter "The Turncloak" Barbrey Dustin says the following:

 

And the wiki says:

 

Based on this it seems that Barbrey was married to Willam before Brandon's death aand therefore before Ned's wedding with Cat, so why wasn't Barbrey accepted as a wife for Ned?

Ned was already in a relationship with Ashara Dayne .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

@Prince of the North If you haven't I definitely reccomend you to read The Winterfell Huis Clos

Thanks!  I checked it out.  However, I always have and, until Martin gives us more info, always will believe that The Hooded Man is a figment of Theon/Reek's imagination.  I think that encounter was simply the two sides of Theon/Reek's warring psyche talking with each other.  I think it's basically a psychological confrontation between the person he's in danger of becoming in truth, Reek, and the person he once was and wants to be again, Theon Greyjoy.  And, in the end, he chose to be Theon again by opposing Ramsay.  I believe this is Theon's entire arc in ADWD and even the progression of the chapter names from his POV point to this.  He's trying to decide who he wants to be?  In the end, he chooses to reclaim his own agency - even if it could mean his death.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Prince of the North said:

Thanks!  I checked it out.  However, I always have and, until Martin gives us more info, always will believe that The Hooded Man is a figment of Theon/Reek's imagination.  I think that encounter was simply the two sides of Theon/Reek's warring psyche talking with each other.  I think it's basically a psychological confrontation between the person he's in danger of becoming in truth, Reek, and the person he once was and wants to be again, Theon Greyjoy.  And, in the end, he chose to be Theon again by opposing Ramsay.  I believe this is Theon's entire arc in ADWD and even the progression of the chapter names from his POV point to this.  He's trying to decide who he wants to be?  In the end, he chooses to reclaim his own agency - even if it could mean his death.  

Yes, I hear it before, I think it's a good idea, tho I don't know if it fits GRRM's style.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/20/2020 at 10:36 AM, CamiloRP said:

I think she's on her own side. The Dustins/Ryswells where likely kings before the Starks (which is pointed at by the crown in the banner, and the fact that the barrow is believed to be the tomb of an old king). She ants control of the Barrow, which is pointed by her not re marring in sixteen years. She might want to take the Ryswell/Dustin to their former glory.

 

I'd like to read that theory! Tho I think that the crypts have only one door, so they're of no use to get into Winterfell. I think she wanted to go to the crypts to check the veracity of Wex's story.

The Dustins and Rhystells were kings 8000+ years ago, so I think it's a bit of a stretch to imagine that Barb wants to restore those kingdoms now.

 

The Hooded Man Uncloaked | Meditations on A Song of Ice and Fire (wordpress.com)

It's a bit of a read, but I think it has legs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

The Dustins and Rhystells were kings 8000+ years ago, so I think it's a bit of a stretch to imagine that Barb wants to restore those kingdoms now.

 

The Hooded Man Uncloaked | Meditations on A Song of Ice and Fire (wordpress.com)

It's a bit of a read, but I think it has legs.

Will read!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

And was it even true? One sided IMHO 

It's certainly believed to be true by people like Catelyn, the household of Winterfell, Cersei (who even has the gall to accuse Ned of doing the old raid pillage and plunder on his way to Dorne), the Reeds, the Daynes, even Barristan Selmy (via ambiguous syntax).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/22/2020 at 9:36 AM, TheLastWolf said:

And was it even true? One sided IMHO 

It is possible that Brandon was tasked with finding Ned a suitable match, and that the "turn to Stark" was about a marriage alliance. So it could be true and one sided. She was said to have been dishonored, and the best way to solve that is marriage, and would explain why Barristan is so fond of Ned along with the Dayne's fondness of him in general. As he would have agreed to save her honor by marrying her. Add to that the fact that this would have ended the Rhyswell hopes of a Stark match (Ben was to young, and said to have decided to join the watch around the same time) and it all fits. Then Ashara's kid dies, her brother dies, and Ned married someone else and turns up with a bastard kid and her killing herself from the shame and grief of it all makes a lot more sense too.

To the thread in general:

As to the secret tunnel I thought Lewin mentioned this to Theon when trying to convince him to go to the wall? and wasn't there mention of a cave entrance near Long Lake? It's been a few years since my last re-read but I thought it was implied (Not stated, just hints) that the cave in blocked the entrance, but it existed and lead to long lake. Could be misremembering but that would be an odd thing to misremember. I Always thought the crypts linked up with the tunnels that should be around the roots of the weirwood, just seems logical given all the other weirwoods we know of having cave systems for the children surrounding them. :dunno:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/23/2020 at 8:05 AM, Angel Eyes said:

It's certainly believed to be true by people like Catelyn, the household of Winterfell, Cersei (who even has the gall to accuse Ned of doing the old raid pillage and plunder on his way to Dorne), the Reeds, the Daynes, even Barristan Selmy (via ambiguous syntax).

I think you have to take a close look at the timing and nature of the sources here. Catelyn hears about Ashara as a possible mother for Jon after the war through Winterfell gossip. Harwin mentions hearing about rumors of Ned and Ashara at Harrenhal, but there’s no indication this was contemporaneous and he makes it out to be essentially a hookup at a tourney, not a relationship. He also says he doesn't believe it. Cersei accuses Ned of fathering Jon on Ashara, but only after accusing the mother of being a whore or a Dornish peasant Ned raped, so she really doesn’t seem to have any firm conviction there. The Reeds only mention Ned and Ashara dancing, and IMO Barristan was not referring to Ned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/21/2020 at 9:08 PM, Angel Eyes said:

Which makes Lord Hightower's decision to allow Jorah to marry Lynesse even more baffling. The Hightowers control a city while House Mormont only has a small island with 62 fighting men.

Wasnt Lynesse “spoiled goods” that her father was grateful to get rid of by this point though, or am I misremembering?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...