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larrytheimp

US Politics - The Liar in Winter

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Just now, Fez said:

Possibly. But else do you want? The only step beyond that is a shooting war, which would make things really fucked.

Well, "descent into fascism" barely rates above a hot war in my book.

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6 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

I think this is wildly optimistic; I think it would track pretty closely to the protests this summer - lots of people in the streets with broad support until moderates start tut-tutting about "messaging" and "tone".

You're the one saying that Democrats need to do something now.  What "material actions" can the Democrats take other than fighting them in court (they're doing that and winning), and being ready to take to the streets in an open strike if we need to? 

I think that an open strike now, prior to Trump making any actual progress towards subverting the election, would be premature, seeing how such a move would likely cost hundreds of lives from COVID spread.  But I can accept hundreds of Americans dying to prevent a coup being successful, as I would certainly be one of the people in the streets sharing those risks.  And I note, I wasn't at the protests in summer because of COVID. 

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I know exit polls could be bad—honestly I know they’d be worse this election with the majority of Trump voters 

With those caveats acknowledge exit polls are showing he did double his level of support among them even doing better than Romney.
https://www.metroweekly.com/2020/11/did-28-of-lgbtq-people-really-vote-for-donald-trump/

I still find the level of support a typical republican nominee could receive from the lgbt community weirdly high.

 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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2 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

You're the one saying that Democrats need to do something now.  What "material actions" can the Democrats take other than fighting them in court (they're doing that and winning), and being ready to take to the streets in an open strike if we need to? 

I think that an open strike now, prior to Trump making any actual progress towards subverting the election, would be premature, seeing how such a move would likely cost hundreds of lives from COVID spread.  But I can accept hundreds of Americans dying to prevent a coup being successful, as I would certainly be one of the people in the streets sharing those risks.  And I note, I wasn't at the protests in summer because of COVID. 

I'm not talking about an open strike *right now*. 

Trump and the Republicans out there attempting this half-baked coup are at least out there telling their supporters what to expect. Democrats are telling their supporters "oh, everything's going to be fine, so keep sitting on your ass", which is at least consistent messaging for them.

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12 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Well, "descent into fascism" barely rates above a hot war in my book.

Fine. And if that's what it comes to, so be it. Certainly I'll be out in the streets for the protests if things reach that point, and I have not ever protested before.

But my point more is, if you think none of this will work, then the thing you should be doing is stockpiling ammo; instead of complaining that nothing else proposed would work.

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1 minute ago, Fez said:

But my point more is, if you think none of this will work, then the thing you should be doing is stockpiling ammo; instead of complaining that nothing else proposed would work.

I can walk and chew gum at the same time; pointing out the fecklessness of national Democrats is just a hobby.

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42 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

This is blinkered. If Trump is trying a coup, which he absolutely is no matter how much he's fumblefucking around at it, do you think he's going to listen to the courts?

I'm not saying Trump is going to listen to the courts. I'm saying that if he can't get the courts to listen to *him*, he's done. And demonstrably, he can't. 

In the meantime, can you explain what it is the Democrats should be doing but aren't? What does their 'fecklessness' consist of? Be specific.

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20 minutes ago, mormont said:

What does their 'fecklessness' consist of? Be specific.

Well, how far do you want me to go back? Bowing to austerity? Letting torturers go free? Bailing out Wall Street? Welfare reform? Participating in the gutting of unions? Backing bad cops? Opposing gay marriage for decades? Cozying up to murderous dictators because they're our murderous dictators? Backing the war in Iraq? Denying healthcare as a basic human right for who knows how long? Getting their asses kicked in 2010, 2014, 2016, and pretty much 2020?

It's pretty obvious the Democratic Party hasn't exactly been at the vanguard of any of these things; if Trump does, by some Christmas miracle, end up stealing the election, I'm not exactly holding my breath that Democrats are going to come riding in to save the day, and it seems prudent at least to remind the Democratic party, which has proved itself for decades to be rather slow on the political uptake, that it might be smart to start educating their voters about what Democrats will do to counter that doesn't amount to a strongly worded letter to the stacked Supreme Court.

Edited by The Great Unwashed

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16 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Hopefully that keeps the gold bug out of the Fed.

Unfortunately he's wealthy and will be fine.  Sadly Karma doesn't actually exist.

48 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I know exit polls could be bad—honestly I know they’d be worse this election with the majority of Trump voters 

With those caveats acknowledge exit polls are showing he did double his level of support among them even doing better than Romney.
https://www.metroweekly.com/2020/11/did-28-of-lgbtq-people-really-vote-for-donald-trump/

I still find the level of support a typical republican nominee could receive from the lgbt community weirdly high.

 

The Right wing propaganda machine has broad out reach.  The primary affect though is that if you don't hear about the awful stuff he does, then it doesn't really exist for you.  And so you add in the incumbent advantage if someone personally is doing ok, and that's probably where a lot of it is coming from.  

How many people even remember he kicked all the Trans folks out of the military?  Trump has done so many awful things in the past four years people have given up trying to keep track.  

Edited by argonak

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Smh

http://twitter.com/Ike_Saul/status/1329799212091940870

From the tweet (doesn't embed on mobile?)

Quote

 

Trump's lawyers filed an affidavit claiming statistical irregularities proving election fraud because they *confused Michigan for Minnesota*

 

They thought "MI" = Minnesota (it's MN), and then compared a bunch of results in Minnesota to Michigan population statistics.

 

 

Edited by Week
Attempting to embed..oh probably new post. Bah

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4 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Sweet Jesus the people he has running his legal fights are all incompetent or are deliberately undermining him.  

The only blessing in the last four years is just how incompetent Trump and his team of enablers are.  Littlefinger would have had us wrapped up with a bow in an authoritarian dictatorship at this point based on emergency response to any of the minor disasters in the last few years.   Old Papa Palpatine would have had us cheering him for crushing North Korea and / or Iran.

Even as the incumbent with the Right Wing machine working overtime to brainwashing the country, Trump still couldn't get a majority of the voters to support him.  He's just so. . . . bad.

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6 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Sweet Jesus the people he has running his legal fights are all incompetent or are deliberately undermining him.  

Right-wing Grifters. Lin Wood is the sleeze who tried to be Rittenhouse's lawyer and set up a GoFund Me for his defense (without apparent permission). 

Sidney Powell is something else entirely. She seems to genuinely have some screws loose.

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12 minutes ago, Week said:

From the tweet (doesn't embed on mobile?)

 

Nope, you have to take the "mobile" out of the address, as well as the S from https I think. And make sure it's not rich text. When I am posting a tweet from my phone, I have to paste it into the message, edit the address, copy and repaste the corrected address, and choose plaintext. Then it finally embeds properly.

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1 hour ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

It’s not a coup, it’s an autovoulpe or something like that. With the modifier “attempted” I front of it.

Yeah it's a self-coup or auto-coup, from the Spanish term autogolpe.

21 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

it seems prudent at least to remind the Democratic party, which has proved itself for decades to be rather slow on the political uptake, that it might be smart to start educating their voters about what Democrats will do to counter that doesn't amount to a strongly worded letter to the stacked Supreme Court.

....This still doesn't really answer the first part of mormont's question.  What specifically should the Dems be doing that they aren't right now?  All this suggests is, I dunno, performing a rendition of "Be Prepared" from Lion King.

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1 hour ago, The Great Unwashed said:

If he topples Michigan, it makes the next chain in the link easier to break.

CNN is reporting that Trump is considering inviting Republican legislative leaders from PA to the WH.

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2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

CNN is reporting that Trump is considering inviting Republican legislative leaders from PA to the WH.

Got damnit have they got Loki's fucking scepter there or something?

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2 minutes ago, DMC said:

Yeah it's a self-coup or auto-coup, from the Spanish term autogolpe.

....This still doesn't really answer the first part of mormont's question.  What specifically should the Dems be doing that they aren't right now?  All this suggests is, I dunno, performing a rendition of "Be Prepared" from Lion King.

I'm saying they should be out there telling Democratic voters that they'll be backing a general strike if Trump overturns the results in Michigan.

That's a specific solution to a specific set of events.

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4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

CNN is reporting that Trump is considering inviting Republican legislative leaders from PA to the WH.

"Considering inviting" is a pretty low bar to clear. 

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