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Did Tyrion do as best as he could as Hand?


Leonardo

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Did his father underestimate Cersei and the council? Should there have been a fair amount more beheadings? Did he ever have a chance of wielding his father's authority?

 

In hindsight I see a hardline approach would have served the Lannister cause better in the short term; though without Littlefinger you may lose the Tyrell alliance. Other than that I don't really see a red in the ledger, as major as a red as that would be.

This is mainly based upon his initial assignment. KL murks the waters once you get there, but immediate impact?

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With the limited information he had, I'd say he did a brilliant job. It's kinda annoying how the people of KL hate him most while he does so much to save their sorry asses. 

Don't you see the jest, Lord Varys?" Tyrion waved a hand at the shuttered windows, at all the sleeping city. "Storm's End is fallen and Stannis is coming with fire and steel and the gods alone know what dark powers, and the good folk don't have Jaime to protect them, nor Robert nor Renly nor Rhaegar nor their precious Knight of Flowers. Only me, the one they hate." He laughed again. "The dwarf, the evil counselor, the twisted little monkey demon. I'm all that stands between them and chaos."

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He saved the city, he saved his family and he saved his family's crown while Tywin was losing against Edmure.

Yes, he did a great job as Hand, he could've done better yeah but given his accomplishments. It's hard to hold that against him.

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He could have done a better job. He looks good because the author made him look good, but presented with the information that he had, it seemed dumb to spend most of his resources on defending for a Naval attack when Renly was the main threat.

Upon arrival a distraught Cersei is pissed about her father not returning, Tyrion points out that the city would not fall in a day (which makes sense) yet despite months of rule, the cities defences is no better off than when he arrived. It was indeed about to fall in a day. He uses all his resources on the chain and protecting an attack from a port and none on the gates and being attacked by land.

 

Upon being given the position his father gives him one instruction, don't bring the whore you just met with you. He ignores this, brings her, falls for her and is blackmailed over her by the time he arrives in the capital, again potentially lucky that Varys did not have cause to use her against him.

Had he listened to his father, he'd not have had her used as a weapon against him and could have concentrated on his job rather than worrying about how he could protect her. Could have banged random whores in the capital, but instead chose to fall for one.

 

Pycelle has no literal power. All he was guilty of was informing Tyrion's sister of what Tyrion was telling him. To have him removed from the Council and locked up is just a bad move, especially given his loyalty to House Lannister. It was short sighted, something the reader approves of, as he's a Lannister loyalist, but something that makes no sense from Tyrion's position as Hand of the King for a Lannister regime. All it does is take away one loyalist voice from the small council and increases the voices of Littlefinger and Varys.

 

There were possibly more conciliatory ways to deal with his sister, the Queen. He instead chooses to work against her, sometimes antagonize her and even poison her to get his way. Again, from a reader's perspective she is an antagonist of the Lannisters, so it seems right, but it is just dumb for the Head of the Government to go that extreme.

 

The Tyrell alliance is brought to his attention by Varys and seems to be something that everyone on the Small Council agreed upon. He gets credit for being in charge of the affair, but it seems likely that it would have been agreed upon regardless if Tyrion was the Hand or not.

 

He does little to secure food for the capital, it is possible that there were no options available to him or that he simply did not think of them.

 

What he does do right is secure the Dornish alliance, even at a cost of Myrcella. There is a possibility that he could have used her to secure an even stronger alliance, but I doubt he had that kind of time with overseas powers.

 

Overall 2.5 out of 5. He was lucky the Tyrells and Tywin turned up when they did or he'd be cooked.

"The city will not fall in a day. From Harrenhal it is a straight, swift march down the kingsroad. Renly will scarce have unlimbered his siege engines before Father takes him in the rear. His host will be the hammer, the city walls the anvil. It makes a lovely picture."

Tyrion's entire plan was for his father to save the city and it seems to have worked out in his favor. Tywin could probably have sent any number of Westerland nobles and the same result come out.

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23 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

There were possibly more conciliatory ways to deal with his sister, the Queen. He instead chooses to work against her, sometimes antagonize her and even poison her to get his way. Again, from a reader's perspective she is an antagonist of the Lannisters, so it seems right, but it is just dumb for the Head of the Government to go that extreme.

 

I don't belive this is possible, Cersei couldn't work with Tyrion nor with Kevan, or Jaime. She would/will antagonize everyone that isn't her "yes ma'am". The only one that could subimit her to his will is Tywin, she is not a team player, and she is too vain, her dislike for Tyrion would always make her unreliable, untrustworthy and a problem, look how she plots against the Tyrells for no reason at all.

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2 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Upon being given the position his father gives him one instruction, don't bring the whore you just met with you. He ignores this, brings her, falls for her and is blackmailed over her by the time he arrives in the capital, again potentially lucky that Varys did not have cause to use her against him.

Had he listened to his father, he'd not have had her used as a weapon against him and could have concentrated on his job rather than worrying about how he could protect her. Could have banged random whores in the capital, but instead chose to fall for one.

Actually, he was only instructed not to bring the whore to court. Tywin never said anything about not bringing her to the city. But I don't think this was an oversight. He knew Shae was Tyrion's weakness, so she could be used as leverage in whatever way Tywin saw fit. And she was most likely Tywin's (and maybe someone else's as well) eyes and ears on Tyrion while he was in the capital.

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2 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

I don't belive this is possible, Cersei couldn't work with Tyrion nor with Kevan, or Jaime. She would/will antagonize everyone that isn't her "yes ma'am". The only one that could subimit her to his will is Tywin, she is not a team player, and she is too vain, her dislike for Tyrion would always make her unreliable, untrustworthy and a problem, look how she plots against the Tyrells for no reason at all.

The family who had her son murdered?

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5 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

The family who had her son murdered?

That may be true, but was that the reason why Cersei was plotting against the Tyrells? I thought it was because she believes Margaery to be the "Younger, more beautiful Queen" who would take all Cersei has.

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6 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

That may be true, but was that the reason why Cersei was plotting against the Tyrells? I thought it was because she believes Margaery to be the "Younger, more beautiful Queen" who would take all Cersei has.

She found the Gardener gold in the missing jailor's cell.

Gold, yes, but the moment Cersei took it she could tell that it was wrong. Too small, she thought, too thin. The coin was old and worn. On one side was a king's face in profile, on the other side the imprint of a hand. "This is no dragon," she said.
"No," Qyburn agreed. "It dates from before the Conquest, Your Grace. The king is Garth the Twelfth, and the hand is the sigil of House Gardener."
Of Highgarden. Cersei closed her hand around the coin. What treachery is this? Mace Tyrell had been one of Tyrion's judges, and had called loudly for his death. Was that some ploy?
 
While she is paranoid, she does actually have reason to suspect the Tyrells. It is not just down to the prophecy.
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Tyrion goes after Pycelle because he has proven to be Cersei's toadie, Tyrion's sent by Tywin and he still betrays his trust. Cersei is a loose canon, neutralize Pycelle is the best option.

Nor Tywin's victory would've been sure without the Tyrells or without Tyrion bleeding Stannis dry.

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2 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Even then, we still have Kevan and Jaime trying and failing at working together with her... Kevan even go so far to say that he wants her out of KL, because she only causes trouble.

No, Kevan wants her away from Tommen. Tywin did not think she was a good influence on Joffrey and did not want the same done to Tommen. Tywin's original plan was for Jaime to be Lord and raise Tommen at the Rock, Kevan, with Jaime no longer an option, wanted Cersei to take her place as the Lady of the Rock back in the Westerlands.

The issue for Kevan is Tommen's education, rather than Cersei only causing trouble. That it not to say that she is a great leader, far from it, he'd expect her to allow her Hand and Small Council to rule for her son, but the reasons he wanted her away from the capital was pretty clear.

 

1 hour ago, frenin said:

Tyrion goes after Pycelle because he has proven to be Cersei's toadie, Tyrion's sent by Tywin and he still betrays his trust. Cersei is a loose canon, neutralize Pycelle is the best option.

Cersei is the Queen, the Grand Maester informing her of her brother's decision's involving her children is not the crime he makes it out to be.

Furthermore, he knows the truth. He simply does not have to reveal anything he does not want Cersie to know to Pycelle. Instead, he alerts Cersei by removing him from office and makes an enemy of him for himself. It also helped foment dissension against him from the other areas of Kings Landing

"The queen has never been known as a friend to the commons, nor is Lord Varys called the Spider out of love . . . but it is you they blame most. Your sister and the eunuch were here when times were better under King Robert, but you were not. They say that you've filled the city with swaggering sellswords and unwashed savages, brutes who take what they want and follow no laws but their own. They say you exiled Janos Slynt because you found him too bluff and honest for your liking. They say you threw wise and gentle Pycelle into the dungeons when he dared raise his voice against you. Some even claim that you mean to seize the Iron Throne for your own."

 

It is a needless act to show dominance against his sister.

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Nor Tywin's victory would've been sure without the Tyrells or without Tyrion bleeding Stannis dry.

How is that an argument in favor of Tyrion's capabilities as Hand?

I don't mean to be rude, but you seem to feel the need to have a negative comment on Tywin even on topics here and on reddit were the subject is not even about Tywin. This may well skewer your opinion on other matters.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

Cersei is the Queen, the Grand Maester informing her of her brother's decision's involving her children is not the crime he makes it out to be.

And Tyrion is the acting Hand of the King, how do you think Tywin would act if he found out that Pycelle was revealing to Cersei secrets he shouldn't have about her children??

Especially when it means that Cersei can move to stop his plans.

 

 

19 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

Instead, he alerts Cersei by removing him from office and makes an enemy of him for himself. It also helped foment dissension against him from the other areas of Kings Landing

"The queen has never been known as a friend to the commons, nor is Lord Varys called the Spider out of love . . . but it is you they blame most. Your sister and the eunuch were here when times were better under King Robert, but you were not. They say that you've filled the city with swaggering sellswords and unwashed savages, brutes who take what they want and follow no laws but their own. They say you exiled Janos Slynt because you found him too bluff and honest for your liking. They say you threw wise and gentle Pycelle into the dungeons when he dared raise his voice against you. Some even claim that you mean to seize the Iron Throne for your own."

 

True.

 

19 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

How is that an argument in favor of Tyrion's capabilities as Hand?

Tyrion was the one bleeding Stannis dry and Tyrion was the one giving green light to the Tyrell alliance.

 

19 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

I don't mean to be rude, but you seem to feel the need to have a negative comment on Tywin even on topics here and on reddit were the subject is not even about Tywin. This may well skewer your opinion on other matters.

I don't think that Tywin throwing out any number of westerlanders would've worked against Stannis without Tyrion.

I don't need to be rude either, but you seem to feel the need to comment what i said in whatever other site and it's kinda offputting. 

But yes, I don't enjoy Tywin. 

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2 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

No, Kevan wants her away from Tommen. Tywin did not think she was a good influence on Joffrey and did not want the same done to Tommen. Tywin's original plan was for Jaime to be Lord and raise Tommen at the Rock, Kevan, with Jaime no longer an option, wanted Cersei to take her place as the Lady of the Rock back in the Westerlands.

 

Yes, and as Lady of the Rock he wanted her there in the Westerlands, he also did not wanted her as regent, Tommen is part of the reason sure, but as Kevan himself says 

Quote

“The king is my son!” Cersei rose to her feet.

“Aye,” her uncle said, “and from what I saw of Joffrey, you are as unfit a mother as you are a ruler.”

He regarded her as a poor ruler, poor mother, and that her place was in Casterly Rock, away from the capital. The whole conversation is Kevan jabbing her one quote after the other, showing how inept her is.

 

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