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Why is everybody who sat the Iron Throne in recent history a rapist?


Alyn Oakenfist

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Note that the expectation that a decent husband should manage to not beat his wife ever IS present. While the laws of Westeros expressly acknowledge right of husband to physically chastise his wife (within safe limits) as in, the wife or her birth family cannot sue him for that, a good husband seems clearly to be expected to manage without using it. Even Robert acknowledges it - "This was not a very kingly thing to do", and Cersei says it happened "a few" times over 10+ years of unhappy marriage. Compare with how Robert complains about Cersei "guarding her cunt like a pot of Lannister gold" to Eddard. Robert expects Eddard´s disapproval for beating his wife, and his own conscience disapproves of wife-beating rather than justify it as proper and legal chastisement - but Robert does not appear to expect any disapproval for raping his wife, or show apparent regret.

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15 hours ago, dbergkvist said:

Yes, they have total power, and can do whatever they want to whoever they want. But why do all of them, except Tommen, want to rape? They don't all want to mutilate or burn people to death or be cannibals etc. What makes rape the one crime that all rulers want to commit?

Tommen is just a baby.   I doubt he has any inclination to violence or sex at this point.  

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On 11/22/2020 at 11:03 AM, Jaak said:

Compare with how Robert complains about Cersei "guarding her cunt like a pot of Lannister gold" to Eddard. Robert expects Eddard´s disapproval for beating his wife, and his own conscience disapproves of wife-beating rather than justify it as proper and legal chastisement - but Robert does not appear to expect any disapproval for raping his wife, or show apparent regret.

Westeros may indeed have very different standards, but an important distinction is that Ned actually saw Robert strike Cersei. He didn't see Robert rape Cersei.

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On 11/20/2020 at 5:39 AM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Rhaegar was not the King, but he was the second best thing, and as I outlined before odds are he too was a rapist (at least after Brandon and Rickard got BBQed)

Absolutely a rapist. Also, Jaeherys raped Alysanne, Jaehaerys II forced his children to marry each other. Irri does her “duty” to pleasure Dany so that’s also dubcon.

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3 hours ago, FictionIsntReal said:

Westeros may indeed have very different standards, but an important distinction is that Ned actually saw Robert strike Cersei. He didn't see Robert rape Cersei.

"Honestly, Ned, it's not my fault my bitch of a wife doesn't want to sleep with me. Just because I whispered your sister's name in her ear on our wedding night, fucked my cousin on a family trip, raped her repeatedly and blamed the drink when she complained that I'd hurt her. I mean I invited her to go hunting didn't I, and what women wouldn't want to cheer me on while I kill large animals is a manly fashion."

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1 minute ago, Rose of Red Lake said:
7 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

What????

That's like one of the few marriages in the world with both parties agreeing and wanting it

He forced her to have more children when she said she was ready to stop.

I always interpreted that as Alysanne wanting to take moons tea. Jaehaerys doesn't strike me as the rapist sort, like at all.

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2 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:
14 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I always interpreted that as Alysanne wanting to take moons tea. Jaehaerys doesn't strike me as the rapist sort, like at all.

Regardless of how it went down, forced pregnancy is a form of rape. Reproductive coercion. He goes to jail, does not collect $200. 

Now besides the argument being murkier if what you say is true, we don't even know if it was just an argument or Jaehaerys ordering it. Could have been an argument and Jaehaerys's arguments winning out. You're grasping at straws here mate

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33 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Now besides the argument being murkier if what you say is true, we don't even know if it was just an argument or Jaehaerys ordering it. Could have been an argument and Jaehaerys's arguments winning out. You're grasping at straws here mate

But you’re willing to call Rhaegar a rapist on even less evidence (and I agree, he is). Here we have a woman saying she doesn’t want any more pregnancies, and the dude saying no, we will have more. Do you know how often that means sexual intercourse? That maybe once out of those many times they have to have sex, he’s doing something she doesn’t want him to do? The odds are off the charts. So yes, he is a rapist.

edit: If a woman says she doesn’t want any more pregnancies because of the toll on her body, that’s not an “argument.” The man is being coercive, not listening, not caring 

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1 hour ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

But you’re willing to call Rhaegar a rapist on even less evidence (and I agree, he is). Here we have a woman saying she doesn’t want any more pregnancies, and the dude saying no, we will have more. Do you know how often that means sexual intercourse? That maybe once out of those many times they have to have sex, he’s doing something she doesn’t want him to do? The odds are off the charts. So yes, he is a rapist.

edit: If a woman says she doesn’t want any more pregnancies because of the toll on her body, that’s not an “argument.” The man is being coercive, not listening, not caring 

For all we know of the 2 by the end they probably both agreed to have more kids. I can't remember F&B ever saying they disagreed on anything, except for the 2 big things that messed up their relationship. This would be bigger, however we get no indication their relationship suffered even a dent.

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27 minutes ago, broken one said:
On 11/24/2020 at 3:33 PM, Rose of Red Lake said:

coercive

Maybe he just convinced her to have more babies. Quite likely, I think. Happens all the time.

Reee, it was rape, 100% sure, all the Targs are awful, long live whatever faction the commenter supports.

Jokes aside, you're probably right, and there's nothing in F&B to indicate that it wasn't as you said

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On 11/22/2020 at 11:14 AM, broken one said:

Eating human flesh is not the thing most people want to do, sex is. They got others to mutilate or steal for them but this is what one does in person.

OK, but why are they all using direct violence in their evil sexual pursuits? Why is it that no evil ruler ever came up with the idea of obtaining sex by bribing women to sleep with them? I.e. a more indirect form of coercion. It's not like there aren't rulers in the story that prefer manipulation and bribery over direct violence in other matters than sex.

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1 hour ago, dbergkvist said:

OK, but why are they all using direct violence in their evil sexual pursuits? Why is it that no evil ruler ever came up with the idea of obtaining sex by bribing women to sleep with them? I.e. a more indirect form of coercion. It's not like there aren't rulers in the story that prefer manipulation and bribery over direct violence in other matters than sex.

Well Robert is an example, who whored his way through the Kingdoms, except when it comes to his wife.

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Point of Order: Jamie Lannister briefly sat on the Iron Throne after the sack of King’s Landing  , and while he has been called many things I don’t think “rapist” is one of them.  
 

Also Ned Stark sat on the throne while dispensing the King’s justice while acting as Hand.  I don’t think he would also be called a rapist in any serious argument.

If we presume that Jon Arryn also sat the throne while acting as Hand, that is yet a third individual hard to label a rapist in a serious argument.   

I know the OP meant actual recognized and crowned rulers, but this type of topic always brings out the hair-splitters and modern moralists in force so this kind of moving goalpost definition seems fair game.  

 

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