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Star Wars: For All Your PT, OT, ST, & AT-AT/ST Needs


DaveSumm

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I didn't even know this was a thing, but an episode of an unreleased pre-Disney Star Wars CGI comedy show has leaked onine.

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Star Wars Detours is an unaired American CGI-animated comedy series. It is differentiated from the other Star Wars animated series in that it is a parody of the franchise. It offers a comedic take on what happened between the prequel trilogy (Episodes I–III) and the original trilogy (Episodes IV–VI). The series is produced by Lucasfilm Animation in collaboration with Robot Chicken creators Seth Green and Matthew Senreich.[1][2] Although roughly two seasons of the show exist, they have never been released to the public. Since The Walt Disney Company's acquisition of Lucasfilm in 2012, the show has been on hiatus to allow Lucasfilm Animation to focus on other projects.[3]

 

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1 hour ago, RumHam said:

I didn't even know this was a thing, but an episode of an unreleased pre-Disney Star Wars CGI comedy show has leaked onine.

Oh, I completely forgot that this was a thing! I saw a couple of teasers just before the Mouse Empire ate it and was actually somewhat looking forward to see Seth MacFarlane's take on the Emperor get into actual Lucasfilm stuff.^^

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5 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Haha wait you think the OT had good writing? :unsure:

'Listen, I have not watched any of the many, many hours of excellent animated shows, think only 3 of 11 movies are any good and have very strong opinions about why this new Star Wars project has failed to deliver to my satisfaction.'

If you will only eat California rolls, maybe sushi isn't for you and you don't need to keep telling everyone that the sushi restaurant sucks?

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6 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

I just think people look at the OT was super heavy nostalgia goggles.

While I think that is true, I think the opposite is also the case for some. People tend to look back at he OT, and judge it by todays standards, or out of context of it's time or what it was trying to achieve.

ANH has some clunky, melodramatic dialogue that made Alec Guinness put his head in his hands, but it was also very effective. It evoked those old flash gordon serials and it also somehow managed to inspire generations of fans who loved every line. I'd suggest the dialogue and script are in part stylistically a bit silly, on purpose. We now live in a time where it feels like every movie should invoke Joss Whedon and be a contest of who can make the wittiest jibe about coffee. The OT is a lot more straightforward, but at the same time has some magical lines and moments. I always think the back and forth between Leia and Han is some of the best rom com stuff I've seen in a movie for instance.

And it's not just about dialogue, those movies, well ANH and ESB, are well structured great examples of how to make a blockbuster movie. There is real skill in a lot of the writing that they told those stories as well as they did

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6 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

 I just think people look at the OT was super heavy nostalgia goggles.

It's very clear that people who hate on almost everything (the PT, the ST, or The Mandalorian) (hello @Veltigar), but somehow don't see just how many plotholes, unresolved questions, or ridiculous moments the OT had, have some weird-ass rose-tinted glasses at home.

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3 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

A New Hope received an Oscar nomination for best original screenplay. Empire was pretty good too. So yes.

Quite. As @Heartofice points out, it’s exactly as good as it’s meant to be. If the vast majority of its fans wouldn’t change a line in it, what’s wrong with it? The first two were, by any metric you wish to pick, phenomenally successful. Back to the Future is regularly referred to as one of the greatest films of all time, and has one of the best scripts, but does it make 100% sense? Is it airtight? Is Biff a realistic villain? Nope, but the movie is entirely comfortable being what it is. A movie doesn’t have to be high art to be great.

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Definitely rose-tinted glasses. Last Jedi gets shit for the Holdor Manouvere, whereas Empire gets a pass for all the stuff that makes no sense in that movie.

Why didn't the Empire launch TIE's to provide air support for their ground attack?  Why weren't there TIE's waiting to shoot down the fleeing transports and X-wings? The ion cannon was good against star destroyers, but wouldn't have worked against a fighter screen.

Why did the rebels send speeders against armoured AT-AT's? Why not send the X-wings against them before they reached the base (obviously the Empire landed them some distance away, or the ion cannon would have shot down the Imperial trooper carriers). A few x-wings would have made mince-meat out of the imperial army. Simply circle round and attack from the rear so the AT-ATs couldnt return fire. For that matter, why did the speeders keep making frontal attacks?

Hell, Luke took out a walker with a tow-rope, lightsaber and grenade; simple send out rebel soldiers with tow ropes, welders and grenades, and boom, walkers dealt with.

Vader's plan sucked. Had the Falcon's hyperdrive been working, he'd haver looked a proper tit with Han, Leia and Chewie sipping cocktails in the rebel fleet while Luke's becoming a jedi, and a whole imperial fleet is left parked next to an ice world on the rim of the galaxy.

The hyperdrive ... without faster than light travel, how did the Falcon reach Bespin (I know some manual mentions a back-up hyperdrive, but it's not mentioned or hinted at in the film.)  

Why doesn't the asteroid snake die of starvation? It's not like there's a lot of traffic passing through an asteroid field in the outer rim. How did it get there?

Luke completely forgetting why he went to Bespin. (And just how much hyperfuel can an x-wing carry?)- it's lucky Dagobah and Lando were pretty close to Hoth!)

Luke's mission: Rescue Han and Leia etc. That's why Vader tortured Han, to get Luke's attention through the Force. Luke had no intention of attacking Vader until he was motivated to do so to rescue his friends...

... so why the hell did he abandon them?? He sees them in the corridor in Cloud City and trades a few shots with Boba Fett. why not rescue them? For all he knew, they were on their way to their execution. If he couldn't handle a bounty hunter and a few stormtroopers (who later got caught unawares by Lando's rentacops) then he's got no chance against Vader. He should have freed his friends and left Vader standing in the dark looking a complete chump while Han is defrosted, and its cocktails all round in the rebel fleet.

Also, there's a year between Empire and Jedi; they know Han's being taken to Jabba the Hutt. They know Jabba's on Tattooine (at the end of Empire, Lando even mentions the rendezvous on Tattooine); for all they know Jabba plans to defrost and kill Han early on. But they take a year out??

 

But hey. Holdor Manouvere. 

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47 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Definitely rose-tinted glasses. Last Jedi gets shit for the Holdor Manouvere, whereas Empire gets a pass for all the stuff that makes no sense in that movie.

How about shitting on everything before and after the Holdo Maneuver?

48 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Why didn't the Empire launch TIE's to provide air support for their ground attack?  Why weren't there TIE's waiting to shoot down the fleeing transports and X-wings? The ion cannon was good against star destroyers, but wouldn't have worked against a fighter screen.

Imperial Tie Fighters are famously very easy to kill because they sacrifice armor and armaments in favor of speed and maneuverability. Think F-16 vs A-10. One is suited for air to air, the other is better suited for close support.  Also, wasn't it established in the film that the imperial fleet borked the attack on Hoth?  I seem to remember a guy getting force choked over it.

55 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Why did the rebels send speeders against armoured AT-AT's? Why not send the X-wings against them before they reached the base (obviously the Empire landed them some distance away, or the ion cannon would have shot down the Imperial trooper carriers). A few x-wings would have made mince-meat out of the imperial army. Simply circle round and attack from the rear so the AT-ATs couldnt return fire. For that matter, why did the speeders keep making frontal attacks?

Because they didn't have 40 years to think about it.

56 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Vader's plan sucked. Had the Falcon's hyperdrive been working, he'd haver looked a proper tit with Han, Leia and Chewie sipping cocktails in the rebel fleet while Luke's becoming a jedi, and a whole imperial fleet is left parked next to an ice world on the rim of the galaxy.

I'm not sure what you are referring to here.

57 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

The hyperdrive ... without faster than light travel, how did the Falcon reach Bespin (I know some manual mentions a back-up hyperdrive, but it's not mentioned or hinted at in the film.)  

Oh my god, you mean you don't know?

1 hour ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

How doesn't the asteroid snake die of starvation? It's not like there's a lot of traffic passing through an asteroid field in the outer rim. How did it get there?

That's actually the asteroid's dick. It's actually a giant force user that lives on the force.  It only eats passing ships for fun.

1 hour ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Luke completely forgetting why he went to Bespin. (And just how much hyperfuel can an x-wing carry) - it's lucky Dagobah and Lando were pretty close to Hoth!)

It is actually.  I too have lost countless hours of sleep over the years contemplating the size of an X-Wing's fuel tank.

1 hour ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Luke's mission: Rescue Han and Leia etc. That's why Vader tortured Han, to get Luke's attention through the Force. Luke had no intention of attacking Vader until he was motivated to do so to rescue his friends...

... so why the hell did he abandon them?? He sees them in the corridor in Cloud City and trades a few shots with Boba Fett. why not rescue them? For all he knew, they were on their way to their execution. If he couldn't handle a bounty hunter and a few stormtroopers (who later got caught unawares by Lando's rentacops) then he's got no chance against Vader. He should have freed his friends and left Vader standing in the dark looking a complete chump while Han is defrosted, and its cocktails all round in the rebel fleet.

He was going after them then he crossed paths with Vader. and you are correct, he had no chance against Vader.  I thought that was obvious.

1 hour ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Also, there's a year between Empire and Jedi; they know Han's being taken to Jabba the Hutt. They know Jabba's on Tattooine (at the end of Empire, Lando even mentions the rendezvous on Tattooine); for all they know Jabba plans to defrost and kill Han early on. But they take a year out??

This is a criticism of Return of the Jedi, not Empire.

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1 hour ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Definitely rose-tinted glasses. Last Jedi gets shit for the Holdor Manouvere, whereas Empire gets a pass for all the stuff that makes no sense in that movie.

Why didn't the Empire launch TIE's to provide air support for their ground attack?  Why weren't there TIE's waiting to shoot down the fleeing transports and X-wings? The ion cannon was good against star destroyers, but wouldn't have worked against a fighter screen.

Why did the rebels send speeders against armoured AT-AT's? Why not send the X-wings against them before they reached the base (obviously the Empire landed them some distance away, or the ion cannon would have shot down the Imperial trooper carriers). A few x-wings would have made mince-meat out of the imperial army. Simply circle round and attack from the rear so the AT-ATs couldnt return fire. For that matter, why did the speeders keep making frontal attacks?

Hell, Luke took out a walker with a tow-rope, lightsaber and grenade; simple send out rebel soldiers with tow ropes, welders and grenades, and boom, walkers dealt with.

Vader's plan sucked. Had the Falcon's hyperdrive been working, he'd haver looked a proper tit with Han, Leia and Chewie sipping cocktails in the rebel fleet while Luke's becoming a jedi, and a whole imperial fleet is left parked next to an ice world on the rim of the galaxy.

The hyperdrive ... without faster than light travel, how did the Falcon reach Bespin (I know some manual mentions a back-up hyperdrive, but it's not mentioned or hinted at in the film.)  

Why doesn't the asteroid snake die of starvation? It's not like there's a lot of traffic passing through an asteroid field in the outer rim. How did it get there?

Luke completely forgetting why he went to Bespin. (And just how much hyperfuel can an x-wing carry?)- it's lucky Dagobah and Lando were pretty close to Hoth!)

Luke's mission: Rescue Han and Leia etc. That's why Vader tortured Han, to get Luke's attention through the Force. Luke had no intention of attacking Vader until he was motivated to do so to rescue his friends...

... so why the hell did he abandon them?? He sees them in the corridor in Cloud City and trades a few shots with Boba Fett. why not rescue them? For all he knew, they were on their way to their execution. If he couldn't handle a bounty hunter and a few stormtroopers (who later got caught unawares by Lando's rentacops) then he's got no chance against Vader. He should have freed his friends and left Vader standing in the dark looking a complete chump while Han is defrosted, and its cocktails all round in the rebel fleet.

Also, there's a year between Empire and Jedi; they know Han's being taken to Jabba the Hutt. They know Jabba's on Tattooine (at the end of Empire, Lando even mentions the rendezvous on Tattooine); for all they know Jabba plans to defrost and kill Han early on. But they take a year out??

 

But hey. Holdor Manouvere. 

A lot of these are minor quibbles. Some of them can be explained, a few of them can be sort of explained, and the rest are totally legit points.

 

However, you can't compare them to the HM, which literally delegitimized ALL space combat, both Death Stars, Starkiller Base or whatever it's called, and everything that happened in that atrocious third movie. If you can stick a droid onto a hypderdrive and destroy an entire fleet than why the fuck aren't you doing that?

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Without love it cannot be seen.

Watching this discussion about how much nitpicking is enough for a story to fall apart for you somehow reminds me of these arc words of my favourite story. Call me an irrational idiot, but trust between writer and audience is a really important factor in whether a story works or doesn't work. I like nitpicking stories, even though it often drives me crazy when a story turns out to be drivel, but it is not just drivel because I can think of more logical outcomes for the events presented, it usually turns out to be drivel when I recognize a pattern of the author simply not caring. There are severe differences in the flaws of every new generation of Star Wars content and it derives a lot from who is in charge.

I trust George Lucas in that he's a megalomaniac filmmaker with great visions who can't write for shit.

I trust Dave Filoni in that he's an average fanfic author who has his pet characters and otherwise is mostly concerned with throwing as many EU references together as he can get away with.

I trust J. J. Abrams in that he's an expert roller coaster designer who doesn't give a shit about anything he touches as his only concern is stringing pictures together.

 

... that's the picture that my mind paints of these dudes after seeing their work and which of course influence how I interpret the intentions behind scenes that don't quite work out on purely logical level. And keep in mind that a story has a lot of parts, so even if some are shit, it may be because there was an intention to support the other ones. Let's take Attack of the Clones for example: Palpatine's entire plan hinges on everybody around him being a total idiot, but incidentally that's kind of the point the prequels want to make in their world-building with the incredibly flawed, arrogant and blind Jedi Order getting tied up in a galactic conflict by a bloated, corrupt and incompetent Republic. Of course Palpatine has a field day playing these morons!

I watch The Mandalorian and can see that it is Filoni and Favreau experimenting with different tones and cinematography. Like many before me have pointed out, it's sometimes jarring how much it warps the story to fit the Western/Samurai aesthetic, just how Rebels' drawing style was jarring in how it adapted Ralph McQuarrie's concept art. Yes, I found the last episode underwhelming in execution, but I can feel the love poured into every episode. This is clearly a work made by fans, because there is so much in it that just feels right. Yes, that's a diffuse and intangible thing to say, but that's how storytelling got to work and used to work back in the days when it wasn't just industrial vaporware flooding the market. The Mandalorian is a highly expensive show, yes, and for that it is surprisingly rough around the edges, but remember that this is the very first Star Wars live action series and that they are breaking new ground with every episode.

The prequels similarly are an interesting case. I cringe hard at the dialogue, but I'm still astounded at the world-building and the visuals and how the visuals support the world-building. Episode 1 was a jarringly childish, but keep in mind that George wrote it that way because he wanted to show the old republic in its most pristine time, which is reinforced by just how clean and gorgeous the pictures are. Episode 2 falls a bit behind thanks to the dated CGI and the significantly stupider plot and dialogue, but still covers a lot of ground in regards to establishing the clone wars as a thing that tears up the galaxy. Same with Episode 3, which gains by having quite a lot of emotional high points, no matter how much I roll my eyes about Anakin's dumb reason to fall and how they shunted Padmé not knowing what to do with her character.

The OT however... With George reigned in, there is nothing much to criticize seriously. Yes, Episode 4 is a very generic fantasy movie, but I tell you what, with George having to establish this huge ass franchise relying on well-known tropes allows for a very smooth intro into the setting. Episode 5 manages to have similarly iconic story beats as Episode 3, similarly impressive visuals and supports that with dialogue that doesn't make your ears bleed! How much more do you want? Episode 6 is a bit jarring in how convoluted Han's rescue was (and it only becomes apparent because it doesn't have much of a connection with the rest of the movie) and the Ewoks are fairly hated last I heard, mostly because they are such an obvious insertion for the sole sake of selling plush toys. But the entire conclusion for Luke's and Vader's arcs during the climactic space battles was a glorious combination of character work, visuals and dialogue.

The Sequel Trilogy however... come on... No matter how I look at them, they have no redeeming qualities! Okay, they are pretty I guess, but what then? They shun even the slightest attempt at world-building, making it very hard to take any of the stated stakes possible to grasp (and you don't need to, because the state of the galaxy gets messily retconned with every opening crawl). They dialogue might not be quite as much of a flaming train wreck as the prequels, but given the fast pace and the completely nonsensical plot, it doesn't offer any high points either. And then of course are the constant jarring plot holes, that don't stop at "Okay, it's dumb that this character didn't think of this", but usually are just a constant barrage of pure nonsense that solely exists to make the pretty pictures happen. You can't even excuse it because the movies themselves don't even try to tell a story, at least the Abrams ones. TLJ does, kinda, though the intention there is mostly to spit into your face for caring, which is just an odd way to treat your audience.

Without love it cannot be seen. That's a sword that cuts both ways. Every story can be hated on if you don't feel love for it, if you try hard enough to find something. But it is severely harder to love a story when it is adamantly clear that even its writers don't feel love for it.

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2 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

... so why the hell did he abandon them?? He sees them in the corridor in Cloud City and trades a few shots with Boba Fett. why not rescue them? For all he knew, they were on their way to their execution. If he couldn't handle a bounty hunter and a few stormtroopers (who later got caught unawares by Lando's rentacops) then he's got no chance against Vader. He should have freed his friends and left Vader standing in the dark looking a complete chump while Han is defrosted, and its cocktails all round in the rebel fleet.

 

I mean he tried but a trap is a trap.  They deliberately funnelled him into Vader with doors (splitting him from R2, Leia/Chewie/3PO, Boba Fett and Han).  It's actually one of the few times in the OT where the Empire is remarkably effective at what it wants to do.

EDIT: My biggest nitpick with Empire is why doesn't Vader have Chewie killed in the carbon freezing chamber.  With the prequels you can justify it by saying he was saving 3PO but in the OT it's basically weirdly passive for no reason given how Vader acts throughout the movie.

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1 hour ago, Relic said:

However, you can't compare them to the HM, which literally delegitimized ALL space combat, both Death Stars, Starkiller Base or whatever it's called, and everything that happened in that atrocious third movie. If you can stick a droid onto a hypderdrive and destroy an entire fleet than why the fuck aren't you doing that?

As much as I hate to admit it, this is a solid point. Just designate a big heavy ship with a hyperdrive to do a Kamikaze run on the command ship in any imperial fleet and game over. Or they could even do the same. Plow something the size of a star destroyer into a planet at super luminal speed and you'd pretty much sterilize it of all life.  Why build death stars?

Cool visual though.

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51 minutes ago, Toth said:

Without love it cannot be seen. That's a sword that cuts both ways. Every story can be hated on if you don't feel love for it, if you try hard enough to find something.

The point isn't to "try hard to find something." Even as a kid I found a giant worm on an asteroid or anthropophagous teddy bears ridiculous, and believe me, I wasn't trying.
The point here being that before going too hard on the criticism of more recent stuff, it's nice to have a bit of perspective and remember that there always were some poorly-written stuff in StarWars, from the very beginning.

And when I see some of the hate poured here against decent stuff (not great, but decent) like The Mandalorian, I can't help but think that the people voicing these criticisms have in fact no perspective whatsoever.

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2 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

I can't help but think that the people voicing these criticisms have in fact no perspective whatsoever.

I mean you can think whatever you want, for sure. But speaking for myself I don't think it's fair to say that and just leave it there. 

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1 hour ago, Slurktan said:

I mean he tried but a trap is a trap.  They deliberately funnelled him into Vader with doors (splitting him from R2, Leia/Chewie/3PO, Boba Fett and Han).  It's actually one of the few times in the OT where the Empire is remarkably effective at what it wants to do.

EDIT: My biggest nitpick with Empire is why doesn't Vader have Chewie killed in the carbon freezing chamber.  With the prequels you can justify it by saying he was saving 3PO but in the OT it's basically weirdly passive for no reason given how Vader acts throughout the movie.

Edit: never mind, I was remembering things wrong. 

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