Catelyn wasn't that bad to Jon

[frenin]

36 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

He knew

Now now, he knew that he lied?? Yes, he knew that he was a psycopath in the making?? No, your false equivalency it's absurd.

 

36 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

We going down the rabbit hole? Ok, watch your step.

So lets excuse noble westerosi parenting, even if we see the stress it causes poor Quentyn to an early grave, what else are we excusing? Ironborn thralldom? Ghiscari auctions?

The Starks of old skinchanged. As in literally adapting new skin and becoming a new life. The way Ramsay is able to pervert the cornerstones of asoiaf is frankly beautiful... Until you take a step back and realize its fucking not

Contrary to your believes, all of that is thoroughly condemned in the books.

Slavery, Ramsay, Dorne's late revanchism etc,  all of that.

That is not that you have to like it,  for example i have several times said that Martin is rather fixated with brides absurdly young. That doesn't mean i don't understand those are the rules they live in. You can like or dislike a character according to your own set of values, no one is asking you to change them, while also having in mind that what you'reading is a depiction of a much more savage time. There ofc things that you can find unacceptable even for the setting, that's again, very normal.

You're the one setting the bar. Yet imo, it's rather absurd to hope the characters to be like your average occidental one. 

 

 

36 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

We going down the rabbit hole? Ok, watch your step.

So lets excuse noble westerosi parenting, even if we see the stress it causes poor Quentyn to an early grave, what else are we excusing? Ironborn thralldom? Ghiscari auctions?

The Starks of old skinchanged. As in literally adapting new skin and becoming a new life. The way Ramsay is able to pervert the cornerstones of asoiaf is frankly beautiful... Until you take a step back and realize its fucking not

Sure, that's the point. The horrible parts is all human part too.

From Tywin to the Great Masters.

 

 

36 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Westerosi medieval parents. 

The point is?? Don't they behave rather accordingly to their medieval counterparts??

 

36 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Westerosi medieval parents. 

I don't know what are you trying to say to. Being a medieval parent does not imply that you don't feel for your child... Or that you are not a parent.

It simply means that things that sounds alien to you, like bethrothal and fostering, is normal to them. Just as things that are normal to you are alien to your great grandparents or that things that are normal to you would be alien to your great grandsons.

 

 

36 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Yea, I can tell. Do you see the similarities?

Yep, both bethroth. I also see the false equivalence.

[Mystical]

Why even judge Cat by modern standards in the first place? It makes no sense for 2 reasons.

1) People act as if child abuse doesn't exist in our oh so enlightened, modern times. There is loads of that in our real world still. Neglect and sexual/physical/emotional/mental abuse of children still happens frequently. Even something as 'simple' as parents pressuring their children to be the best academically and overworking them is a form of abuse. The only way to judge Cat by modern standards is if we had no child abuse in our society at all.

2) By modern standards: Cat could, and probably would have, divorced Ned's ass when he showed up after a year long business trip with the child he had with another woman. Not only that but she would probably have gotten the house, the family car, continued child support (for Robb) and sued for sole custody of Robb. This would prevent both Cat and Jon from ever being forced into an 'abusive' situation in the first place. But this isn't an option for Cat now is it? She has to live with the rule breaking of her husband (rule being you don't raise the bastard under your roof), the fact that she thinks Ned loved this other woman more than her and deal with the fact that this boy might become a danger to her children's legacy precisely because Ned went against Westerosi norms and brought his bastard home. And the boy happens to not only look like a Stark (unlike her other sons) but like an image of Ned.

Of course we would have all liked for Cat to take her issues up with the person who actually deserves her ire and that's Ned. Except Cat can't do that in their society now can she? And if she did, boy what a miserable marriage that would be. This entire situation is horrible for BOTH Cat and Jon but somehow it's all Cat's fault instead of the person who put them both in this situation in the first place. Cat dealt with it the best that she could which was mostly ignore Jon which was her right, he is not her son or step-son and he is certainly not her responsibility. And just because she imparted the 'wisdom' of their society (their view on bastards and how to treat them/what to with them) on her children as well, doesn't make her evil. It just makes her a product of said society.