Mark O'Kane Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Yes they won but they made massive errors which I wouldn't have made both tactically and politically. - Jaime - if I were in his shoes I would smash Piper and Vance at Golden Tooth as he does and then put Riverrun under siege after smashing Edmure's host outside the walls. I would execute Edmure as a message to Catelyn and then I would challenge Tytos Blackwood to single combat. Once he loses he has to open the gates as per my request and then I would put the garrison to the sword. I would then put some lannisters in Tully armor and send them across the Green Fork in boats to the Stark host and they can infiltrate them and learn their plans. I would then make for the Twins, explaining to Walder Frey to invite Robb in but he has to marry a daughter on the spot. Once the wedding is underway the entire Stark army will be incapacitated with wine provided by Walder Frey. This is when the Freys slaughter all the Starks, except for the Boltons whom I have reached out to with my spies from earlier as I know the Boltons hate the Starks and that Roose is an untrustworthy vassal. My spies explain my offer, turn on the Starks and help the Freys defeat them all or they will die at the wedding too. So once the wedding is on, the Freys, Lannisters and Boltons all defeat and kill the drunk Stark army with ease. Robb and all the lords are taken captive. I will then dispatch a force of Freys to siege Seagard and make the Mallisters surrender. I will send Black Walder to challenge Patrek to single combat and if he wins his father has to open the gates and all garrison will be put to the sword. I will then make my plans to imvade the North. I will go North with 3000 Freys, 2500-3000 Boltons and the 15000 Lannister Army. The Boltons can take Moat Cailin by subterfuge and the Frey-Bolton-Lanister Alliance descend on Barrowton and then White Harbor, burning both to the ground. I will then send the Boltons North to get reinforced by Ramsay and the 600 Deadfort men. Roose will take Karhold by threatening to kill Rickard and his sons and force the 450 Karstarks left to join him, doing the same with the Umbers to gain 800 more men. The Boltons would then move to Castle Black with the Umbers and Karstarks who must prove their loyalty by killing Jon and LC Mormont, installing Alliser Throne as LC. The force will then visit the mountain clans, sharing their meat and mead and winning their loyalty to bring the Bolton Army up to around 7500. The Bolton Army then moves South through the wolfswood to Deepwood Motte, where the Glovers will be given the choice to bend the knee or die. Once they surrender they will be executed for being too loyal to Starks. Rodrik Cassell is oblivious to all of this as he is mustering an army to fight Jaime's army which is advancing from the South. The Boltons arrive to meet Rodrik who thinks them reinforcements. Ramsay does a sneak attack, chopping off Rodriks head, which is the signal for the Boltons to attack the Stark Army, destroying it. Jaime then captures Bran and Rickon, slaying Bran in the process so that it doesn't get out that he pushed him out of the tower several months prior. The Boltons are tired from all the fighting and they don't expect it when the Lannister army cuts them down in a one-sided battle alongside the Freys. Tyrion is named Warden of the North and engaged to 'Arya Stark' who is actually Jeyne Poole and is dispatched to Winterfell with a force of Westermen. All the Northern Prisoners are sent to the Red Keep to pledge fealty. North defeated and subdued. Tywin - With the Stark army successfully defeated I turn my attention to Renly, dispatching a Raven to him to invite him to Harrenhal for peace talks but he can only bring a small guard detail. Tywin knows he will bring Loras so he ensures Tywin is there, who will be ordered to mock Loras and Renly savagely and make Loras start a fight. Gregor will defend himself and cut Loras in two, and then Tywin can safely order the execution of Renly and his other men with a storm of arrows as Renly broke guest-right. Tywin will send a letter to Mace explaining that Renly killed Loras because he didn't return his feelings of affection and then the mountain tried to save him but was too late. Mace Tyrell will be offered a pardon if he agrees to send the Redwyne Fleet against Stannis immediately and then Tywin will send an anonymous letter to Balon to tell him The Arbor is undefended. Balon will then begin to sack the Reach, weakening it and distracting Mace long enough for Tywin to send a raven to the Martells, offering them justice for Elia by giving them The Mountain in return for attacking the Tyrells. Stannis will then be stranded at Dragonstone by the Redwynes but then Tywin will orchestrate a fleet of Wildfire boats from Kings Landing to crash into Stannis' Fleet and the Redwyne Fleet, destroying both. Tywin and the Martells will attack the Tyrell host from the North and South, taking them unawares, executing Mace Tyrell and Garlan Tyrell. Then Tywin will agree to give Oberyn Martell the Mountain in chains but then the Lannisters will turn on the Martells too, defeating them as they were caught unawares, executing Oberyn Martell. Tywin will then send a handpicked team to take a boat to Dragonstone to infiltrate the castle to challenge Stannis to single combat which he will lose against the handpicked team. With the Reach being raided at the coast, Tywin will then unleash his army against it to teach them to never go against the Lannisters again - burning Oldtown to the ground and installing Kevan as Warden of the South with Randyll Tarly agreeing to turn his cloak to the lannisters because he respects power. Kevan would then be tasked with defeating the Greyjoys once and for all with a mighty fleet being built at Lannisport. Tywin will then return to Kings Landing as Hand to reforge the small council, releasing Jaime from the Kingsguard and marrying him to Margaery to claim Highgarden. Hand - Tywin Master of Whispers - Varys Master of Ships - Kevan Master of Laws - Randyl Tarly Master of Coin - Orton Merryweather Lord Commander - Barristan Selmy Commander of City Watch - Adam Marbrand Grandmaester - Pycelle Kingsguard - Meryn Trant - Mandon Moore - Boros Blout - Arys Oakheart - Preston Greenfield - Sandor Clegane - replaces Jaime - Barristan Selmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Mate, play CK2 AGOT if you're into this kind of thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 16 hours ago, Mark O'Kane said: - Jaime - if I were in his shoes I would smash Piper and Vance at Golden Tooth as he does and then put Riverrun under siege after smashing Edmure's host outside the walls. I would execute Edmure as a message to Catelyn You can't be certain of smashing Edmure. Executing him would be a terrible play, as he's a valuable hostage. Quote and then I would challenge Tytos Blackwood to single combat. Once he loses he has to open the gates as per my request It's not likely he would accept, he wanted to beat Bracken, not one of the best swordsmen in existence, only a dumbass or someone as skilled as Jaime would accept. Quote and then I would put the garrison to the sword. Needles, cruel, and it encourages people not to trust in you. Quote I would then put some lannisters in Tully armor and send them across the Green Fork in boats to the Stark host and they can infiltrate them and learn their plans. You'll ned to send some lord people would recognize with them, or else everyone would suspect them. Quote I would then make for the Twins, explaining to Walder Frey to invite Robb in but he has to marry a daughter on the spot. The Stark forces would almost certainly find out of your trip to the Twins, ruining the plans. Why would Robb accept a marriage on the spot? Quote Once the wedding is underway the entire Stark army will be incapacitated with wine provided by Walder Frey. This is when the Freys slaughter all the Starks Even Robb? Whom they just married into? Why would they betray the king that makes their daughter queen? Quote , except for the Boltons whom I have reached out to with my spies from earlier as I know the Boltons hate the Starks and that Roose is an untrustworthy vassal. My spies explain my offer, turn on the Starks and help the Freys defeat them all or they will die at the wedding too. Bolton only betrayed Robb because Stannis lost and Theon took Winterfell, you need to time it to that, and you can't be certain your spies will reveal them to be untrustworthy. Quote So once the wedding is on, the Freys, Lannisters and Boltons all defeat and kill the drunk Stark army with ease. I thought the Freys would murder them Quote Robb and all the lords are taken captive. This is actually smarter than what happened in the series. Quote I will then dispatch a force of Freys to siege Seagard and make the Mallisters surrender. I will send Black Walder to challenge Patrek to single combat and if he wins his father has to open the gates and all garrison will be put to the sword. Again, no one would accept single combat under those conditions, killing the garrison makes no fucking sense. You already won. It only makes people distrust you and dislike you. And what if Mallister doesn't accept the duel? Quote will then make my plans to imvade the North. I will go North with 3000 Freys, 2500-3000 Boltons and the 15000 Lannister Army. The Lannister army is really needed elsewhere, and the North doesn't have enough people for it to be worth it to send such an army. Quote The Boltons can take Moat Cailin by subterfuge and the Frey-Bolton-Lanister Alliance descend on Barrowton and then White Harbor, burning both to the ground. WHY? you have no particular reason to distrust them, the Dustinds send little forces to the war, so why punishing them, and you have one or both Manderly children as hostages, there's no need to burn White Harbor either. Quote I will then send the Boltons North to get reinforced by Ramsay and the 600 Deadfort men. Roose will take Karhold by threatening to kill Rickard and his sons and force the 450 Karstarks left to join him, doing the same with the Umbers to gain 800 more men. The Boltons would then move to Castle Black with the Umbers and Karstarks who must prove their loyalty by killing Jon and LC Mormont, WHY?!? Killing the LC of TNW serves no purpose but to have everyone hate you and mistrust you. Quote installing Alliser Throne as LC. What good is that? He's a Targaryen loyalist. And you breaking the NW's tradition would only serve to have people hate you even more. Quote The force will then visit the mountain clans, sharing their meat and mead and winning their loyalty to bring the Bolton Army up to around 7500. You would only be doing this based on the information you have as a reader (as is the case with many things you suggest). Jaime could never know to do this. Quote The Bolton Army then moves South through the wolfswood to Deepwood Motte, where the Glovers will be given the choice to bend the knee or die. Once they surrender they will be executed for being too loyal to Starks. But you pardoned the Umbers and the Karstarks, why would the Glovers be different? Also, by now no one would trust in you word. You have proven to be the most dishonest dude in the world. Quote Rodrik Cassell is oblivious to all of this as he is mustering an army to fight Jaime's army which is advancing from the South. Are you controlling him aswell? Quote The Boltons arrive to meet Rodrik who thinks them reinforcements. No way he would think this after all the Boltons did. Absolutely no way. Quote Ramsay does a sneak attack, chopping off Rodriks head, which is the signal for the Boltons to attack the Stark Army, destroying it. Jaime then captures Bran and Rickon, slaying Bran in the process so that it doesn't get out that he pushed him out of the tower several months prior. At this point, why would he care? he's already soiled his name incredibly, might as well add child murderer to the list of dishonorable things he did. Quote The Boltons are tired from all the fighting and they don't expect it when the Lannister army cuts them down in a one-sided battle alongside the Freys. WHYYYYYYYYY Quote Tyrion is named Warden of the North and engaged to 'Arya Stark' who is actually Jeyne Poole and is dispatched to Winterfell with a force of Westermen. All the Northern Prisoners are sent to the Red Keep to pledge fealty. North defeated and subdued. Rickon and Sansa are still alive, they both have better claim to Winterfell than Arya, and a lot more than Jeyne. Why not marrying Tyrion to Sansa? or some Lannister cousin to Rickon? Robb is also alive, as likely is his Frey wife, will they have any children? Who rules the Riverlands? The Blackfish? Edmure and Cat are Dead. Why not marring some Lannister cousin to Edmure and kill him after he has a male child to raise the child as a Lannister? Why not do the same thing with Robb? Quote Tywin - With the Stark army successfully defeated I turn my attention to Renly So, just to be clear, you do nothing till the Stark army is done? Then Stannis already killed you and Renly. Quote , dispatching a Raven to him to invite him to Harrenhal for peace talks but he can only bring a small guard detail. Why would he accept? Jaimie already shown how you don't keep your word at all. He also has a vastly superipr force and knows Joff to be an incest bastard. Why would he ever want peace talk, and why would he only take a small detail? Quote Tywin knows he will bring Loras so he ensures Tywin is there ??? Quote , who will be ordered to mock Loras and Renly savagely and make Loras start a fight. If it doesn't? Quote Gregor will defend himself and cut Loras in two, and then Tywin can safely order the execution of Renly and his other men with a storm of arrows as Renly broke guest-right. Loras did, not Renly. And peace talk and guest right aren't the same thing. Quote Tywin will send a letter to Mace explaining that Renly killed Loras because he didn't return his feelings of affection and then the mountain tried to save him but was too late. Absolutely no way on Earth Mace would believe this. Renly and Loras care deeply for each other, even Ned notices this. And why would this come up during peace talk? What would you claim happened to Renly's guards? Most of them where lord's sons. Quote Mace Tyrell will be offered a pardon if he agrees to send the Redwyne Fleet against Stannis immediately and then Tywin will send an anonymous letter to Balon to tell him The Arbor is undefended. Balon will then begin to sack the Reach, weakening it and distracting Mace long enough for Tywin to send a raven to the Martells, offering them justice for Elia by giving them The Mountain in return for attacking the Tyrells. The Martells would never do that. They consider Tywin guilty too. And they don't want to go to war, much less on the Lannister's side. Quote Stannis will then be stranded at Dragonstone by the Redwynes but then Tywin will orchestrate a fleet of Wildfire boats from Kings Landing to crash into Stannis' Fleet and the Redwyne Fleet, destroying both. It would be really suspicious and imposible to pull off. The wildfire worked in the Black Water because the unmaned boats didn't need to sail that much time, going all the way to Dragonstone would be impossible without a crew on each ship, a crew who would know they are being sacrificed in a tortuous way, Good luck finding one. Then you would need to make sure no boat explotes on the way, which is near impossible. Then you would need to surprise both navies and even then, the Redwyne fleet is 500 ships big, you wouldn't make enough damage. Quote Tywin and the Martells will attack the Tyrell host from the North and South, taking them unawares, executing Mace Tyrell and Garlan Tyrell. Again, the Martells wouldn't attack. You can't be sure the Tyrells would be unaware. Quote Then Tywin will agree to give Oberyn Martell the Mountain in chains but then the Lannisters will turn on the Martells too, defeating them as they were caught unawares, executing Oberyn Martell. Same as above. Quote Tywin will then send a handpicked team to take a boat to Dragonstone to infiltrate the castle to challenge Stannis to single combat which he will lose against the handpicked team. He won't accept. He didn't in Storm's End, and the person he was supposed to fight wasn't a man who broke his word (and guest right) a thousand times only in the last few months. Quote With the Reach being raided at the coast, Tywin will then unleash his army against it to teach them to never go against the Lannisters again - burning Oldtown to the ground Why? the Hightowers sent Renly little support, why them? do you want the Faith to turn against you too? Quote and installing Kevan as Warden of the South with Randyll Tarly agreeing to turn his cloak to the lannisters because he respects power. Kevan would then be tasked with defeating the Greyjoys once and for all with a mighty fleet being built at Lannisport. He doesn't have enough time to build such a fleet. You should have Theon as a hostage tho. Quote Tywin will then return to Kings Landing as Hand to reforge the small council, releasing Jaime from the Kingsguard and marrying him to Margaery to claim Highgarden. Jaime wouldn't accept. And if he was to marry Margeary, why naming Kevan Guarden of the South? What happens to Willas and the hundred male Tyrells that should go ahead of Marg in the line of succesion? Quote Hand - Tywin And regent I assume. Quote Master of Whispers - Varys You used book hingsight 20/20 for all of it but not for getting rid of Varys? Same with Stannis murdering Renly, which would happen way before you could call Renly to a peace treaty, as you did so after Jaimie reached the Wall and back. Quote Master of Ships - Kevan Master of Laws - Randyl Tarly Master of Coin - Orton Merryweather Why those positions for each? Why not Littlefinger as Master of Coin? Or Tyrion? Quote Lord Commander - Barristan Selmy You control Cersei too, so she didn't get rid of him? Quote Commander of City Watch - Adam Marbrand Not Slynt? What happened to him? Did Tyrion send him to the Wall? Why not naming him LC instead of Thorne? Did he keep Harrenhall, despite it being a really stupid idea? Quote - Sandor Clegane - replaces Jaime Not a good addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Stark Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Quote 7 hours ago, CamiloRP said: WHY?!? Killing the LC of TNW serves no purpose but to have everyone hate you and mistrust you. Someone ought to tell that to Bowen Marsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O'Kane Posted November 24, 2020 Author Share Posted November 24, 2020 Quote Executing Edmure is integral to the plan. He has to die because once he has been dealt with Riverunn can be claimed once Hoster dies of sickness. Tytos Blackwood would agree to the single combat because it shows him that Jaime is honourable and willing to stand up and fight. If he loses he will think he will be captured and spared and if he wins Jaime would agree to lift the siege, it's a win-win and the best way out of a bad situation. I would command Jonos Bracken to be the leader of the spies since as a Lord the Northerners would believe his word to be true. Now the Starks can't know about the march to the Twins this is correct but they are separated by the Green Fork at this point and have no way to know what is going on. But to ensure the plan goes ahead I would screen my march with outriders to defeat any and all of the Stark scouts if any made it across the Green Fork. The important part of the plan is that Robb is captured by the Freys, also you forget that he is not King in the North at this stage so Walder Frey would know this. He is giving Robb 4000 men for Robbs to marry his daughter, Robb can accept and marry her on the spot or run back to Winterfell with his tail between his legs or risk battle with Tywin and risking the Freys attacking his rear. He has to marry a Frey or he has lost before he has even begun.. While the Starks are drunk the Lannister host of 15000 sneaks over while the 3000 Boltons take up positions in the woods and then upon the signal of the Rains of Castamere, the battle begins in earnest. Every major lord is captured. Also as a side note the spies are told to make sure the Boltons are definately on board with the plan.... Mallister is well known to be honourable and he will want revenge against the Freys so he will definately accept. Patrek is hot-blooded and rash and the Freys will threaten to destroy Seagard with catapults if he refuses, offering to pull back the siege if he is victorious. Killing the garrison isnl to ensure they can't rebel when the Freys turn their backs and return to the Twins. No because if Jaime joins with Tywin the host will be too big to feed with around 50000 men (Freys, Brackens and Boltons have joined don't forget). If he goes North he can ensure the Starks are removed from the equation whilst Tywin deals with Renly and Stannis at this stage isn't a factor as he has no real army to match the Lannisters. Also Jaime's invasion of the North happens simultaneously to what Tywin does I should have been more clear apologies. Barroton and White Harbor must burn as it is crucial to distract Winterfell whilst Roose Bolton commandeers the Manderly fleet to go North and subdue the Karstarks and Umbers and then gain the Northern Clans. Roose and Ramsay are doing this whilst Jaime remains South at White Harbor, feeding his host off the fat of the land, taunting Rodrik Cassell and offering a pitched battle in 3 months time, giving Roose enough time to strike from the North. Jon Snow will want revenge for Robbs capture so he has to be killed FAST and LC Mormont will try to warn Winterfell that something is not quite right. Alliser Thorne is not a Targ loyalist as you shed all prior loyalties when you join the watch and as a Knight he is a capable commander but yes he can be replaced if he brews trouble. Jaime isn't doing the part with the Northern Clans that is Roose who does this part as he is the one who knows that the clans can be won over by listening to their songs and stories and sharing meat and mead. The Glovers wouldn't know about the prior engagements as the plan is based around not letting word spread until the war is won, only a fool would do otherwise. The Glovers are too close to the Starks and have to be eradicated or they can all maybe take the Black, bolstering the Wall to help with the increased presence of the Others? Rodrik doesn't know anything about the Boltons, he's been distracted gathering am army to fight Jaime and he has no reason to think them enemies as they are Northmen. Bran has to die because if news gets out about him and the Queen the realm will know Joffrey is a bastard born of incest. Ok so now the Boltons cannot be trusted as they are proven turncloaks and quite frankly a loose end. They have to be silenced and the other houses follow them only out of fear. Once they are defeated the Karstarks Umbers and Northern Clans can return peacefully to their homes, greatful for liberation. Sansa is still engaged to Joffrey so that can't work.... Rickon will remember what the Lannisters did and will try to raise the North. He will be sent to the Faith. Arya is still missing as per OTL so the only logical choice is Tyrion and Jeyne Poole pretending to be Arya. Robb can stay married to the Frey but it is explained to him this is only until a son is born to inherit Riverunn and then he is to be executed for treason. Walder Frey becomes Lord Paramount of the Riverlands. Blackfish is offered to take the Black or he can be challenged to single combat by Jaime. Catelyn marries Walder Frey to make peace once more and Walder has his current wife killed in a hunting accident. Renly will accept as he knows not to underestimate Tywin and his formidable host. Renly doesn't know anything about Jaime's Northern campaign so this is not an issue. It is customary to bring a few guards as a gesture of good faith. I meant that Tywin would ensure Gregor is present so he can taunt Loras who will start a fight. If Gregor fails to provoke Loras he will challenge him to single combat which Loras would never refuse. All the guards Renly brought would ne defeated by the crossbowmen hidden up high on the towers at Harrenhal. Mace doesn't realise Loras loves Renly so he of course would believe this and the guards deaths can be covered up by saying Brienne was ordered by Renly to kill them all. The Martells of course will join in return for justice for Elia, they are being lead to believe they will be given Gregor Clegane, The Mountain who rides. Tywin would hire expert sailors who can safelt sail the ships and then they can escape on lifeboats. Tywin will also build enough Wildfire to destroy all the boats but incase there are any survivors Tywin will hire Myrish pirates to pick off the Redwynes with a storm of crossbow bolts and they have dirks for closequarters. The Tyrells won't see Tywin coming as he will send Adam Marbrand ahead to screen his march and defeat all the Tyrell scouts. The Martells will be caught unawares I am confident as they are in a foreign land and they think the Lannisters are friends. I will then send a raven to Doran explaining the Tyrells killed the Dornish army but they were avenged, earning the love and fealty of Dorne. Well yes I concede Oldtown is a good city and they are useful so they could be left unmolested but they will be paying a hefty fine and will send 1 highborn hostage to Casterly Rock like Lord Hightower. Stannis would have no choice but to accept the challenge as he has been infiltrated and caught unawares in his solar. Kevan will be commanded to build the fleet in time and to divert local craftsmen, blacksmiths etc. to build ships for the attack on the Iron Islands. Once defeated Kevan will be ordered to get them to bend the knee or be defeated for good. Jaime has no choice it was an order not a request. Jaime is warden of the East and West - South makes him far too powerful. Wilas and all the Tyrells left can take the black or be defeated in single combat as Tywin has no lack of champions. Highgarden will be Kevan's seat whilst Jaime returns to Casterly Rock to consolidate his power and assist Kevan in building the warfleet to fight the greyjoys. Cersei is regent as per OTL Varys is useful this cannot be denied Tyrion reveals Littlefinger set him up and is too untrustworthy in general and Tywin has him defeated in single combat Janos Slynt is a known traitor he is stripped of Harrenhal and executed which will be then given to Lancel. Tommen will be Lord of Storms end and Lord Paramount of the Stormlands and engaged to Arianne Martell. Tyrion is in the North he is busy consolidating his power Kevan makes sense as he is building the lannister fleet so will be experienced at naval battles. Littlefinger had to be cooking the books as I have read posts by finance experts who state as much. He cannot be allowed to stay also he was defeated in single combat after his arrest upon Tywin's return. The Hound is an excellent choice? He can fight with literally any weapon, doesn't afraid of anything and is devoted to the King. Hope that clears things up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Edmure and Hoster dying doesn't somehow make it magically the Lannister's demesne. Catelyn and Lysa are both still living and they have multiple male children between the two of them. Tytos Blackwood wouldn't agree to single combat either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Mark O'Kane said: Executing Edmure is integral to the plan. He has to die because once he has been dealt with Riverunn can be claimed once Hoster dies of sickness. By whom would it be claimed? Tywin's strategy of marrying into the losing family and stealing their lands works just fine. And you would be killing Edmure before you killed any other Tully. What if Cat survives? or Lysa? or Brynden? Heck, any Stark children has better claim to Riverrun that anyone you could place there. Keeping him alive, forcing him to have a baby and then killing him seems like the best choice. Quote Tytos Blackwood would agree to the single combat because it shows him that Jaime is honourable and willing to stand up and fight. If he loses he will think he will be captured and spared and if he wins Jaime would agree to lift the siege, it's a win-win and the best way out of a bad situation. But he knows he will lose, no one in their right mind would accept. Specially os early in the war. And no, if he loses the fight he dies, as those fights tend to be to death. Quote I would command Jonos Bracken to be the leader of the spies since as a Lord the Northerners would believe his word to be true. x Then there's no need to play dressup. Quote Now the Starks can't know about the march to the Twins this is correct but they are separated by the Green Fork at this point and have no way to know what is going on. But to ensure the plan goes ahead I would screen my march with outriders to defeat any and all of the Stark scouts if any made it across the Green Fork. It could work, but it's a long march, done by a large army, it's pretty hard to keep it secret. Quote While the Starks are drunk the Lannister host of 15000 sneaks over while the 3000 Boltons take up positions in the woods and then upon the signal of the Rains of Castamere, the battle begins in earnest. Every major lord is captured. Also as a side note the spies are told to make sure the Boltons are definately on board with the plan.... This is not needed, as it worked just fine without Lannister involvement, it also makes it harder for the plan to be kept a secret, since you need a hidden army, and it's harder for the Lannisters to blame it all on Walder. Quote Mallister is well known to be honourable and he will want revenge against the Freys so he will definately accept. Patrek is hot-blooded and rash and the Freys will threaten to destroy Seagard with catapults if he refuses, offering to pull back the siege if he is victorious. Killing the garrison isnl to ensure they can't rebel when the Freys turn their backs and return to the Twins. They wouldn't accept as a duel against Jaime means to loose. They also wouldn't accept because Jaime showed himself not to keep the conditions with lord Blackwood. Quote Barroton and White Harbor must burn as it is crucial to distract Winterfell whilst Roose Bolton commandeers the Manderly fleet to go North and subdue the Karstarks and Umbers and then gain the Northern Clans. Roose and Ramsay are doing this whilst Jaime remains South at White Harbor, feeding his host off the fat of the land, taunting Rodrik Cassell and offering a pitched battle in 3 months time, giving Roose enough time to strike from the North. There's no need, the Dustins have shown themselves not to be very loyal. And you have hostages for White Harbor and WInterfell, those places can be taken without a battle. Quote Jon Snow will want revenge for Robbs capture so he has to be killed FAST and LC Mormont will try to warn Winterfell that something is not quite right. Winterfell will already know, as they are south of the Wall, once you take Moat Cailin they know you've come for them. After the Red Wedding they'll know. Quote Alliser Thorne is not a Targ loyalist as you shed all prior loyalties when you join the watch and as a Knight he is a capable commander but yes he can be replaced if he brews trouble. My question was more about why him? why meddle with the Watch that much? it brings no benefit. Quote Jaime isn't doing the part with the Northern Clans that is Roose who does this part as he is the one who knows that the clans can be won over by listening to their songs and stories and sharing meat and mead. We have no indication of him knowing that. In fact, if he knew, he would have done that. Quote The Glovers wouldn't know about the prior engagements as the plan is based around not letting word spread until the war is won, only a fool would do otherwise. The Glovers are too close to the Starks and have to be eradicated or they can all maybe take the Black, bolstering the Wall to help with the increased presence of the Others? No way you can keep such things secret. It as close to impossible as it gets. Quote Rodrik doesn't know anything about the Boltons, he's been distracted gathering am army to fight Jaime and he has no reason to think them enemies as they are Northmen. Bran has to die because if news gets out about him and the Queen the realm will know Joffrey is a bastard born of incest. Rodrik does know. This would be weeks after the Boltons did a Red Wedding and took Moat Cailin. It would be impossible for him not to know. Why are they north while the rest of the troops are dead? No one would trust in them. Quote Ok so now the Boltons cannot be trusted as they are proven turncloaks and quite frankly a loose end. They have to be silenced and the other houses follow them only out of fear. Once they are defeated the Karstarks Umbers and Northern Clans can return peacefully to their homes, greatful for liberation. Nah. It'll never happen. You'll just lose your only allies. The Boltons are not beloved in the North, and their forces alone can't battle the Lannisters, they'll never rebel. The rest won't be grateful. You killed their lords, kings and family members, and then betrayed the Boltons. You showed yourself to be completely evil and completely untrustworthy. Quote Sansa is still engaged to Joffrey so that can't work.... Rickon will remember what the Lannisters did and will try to raise the North. He will be sent to the Faith. Arya is still missing as per OTL so the only logical choice is Tyrion and Jeyne Poole pretending to be Arya. Robb can stay married to the Frey but it is explained to him this is only until a son is born to inherit Riverunn and then he is to be executed for treason. Walder Frey becomes Lord Paramount of the Riverlands. You can break the engagement between Joff and Sansa. You can marry Rickon to a Lannister cousin, fill WInterfell with Lannister men, rule in his stead and kill him the moment he has a son. Robb's son would have a way better claim to Winterfell than any Tyrion/Arya sons. And Lysa has a better claim to Riverrun than Robb. Quote Blackfish is offered to take the Black or he can be challenged to single combat by Jaime. He'd refuse both. Quote Catelyn marries Walder Frey to make peace once more and Walder has his current wife killed in a hunting accident. Why not one of his sons? It's better. Quote Renly will accept as he knows not to underestimate Tywin and his formidable host. Renly doesn't know anything about Jaime's Northern campaign so this is not an issue. It'd be impossible to keep it secret. Quote It is customary to bring a few guards as a gesture of good faith. I meant that Tywin would ensure Gregor is present so he can taunt Loras who will start a fight. Gregor doesn't have the wits to taunt anyone. Quote If Gregor fails to provoke Loras he will challenge him to single combat which Loras would never refuse. Yes he would. It makes no sense for him to accept. They are in a diplomatic mission. Quote All the guards Renly brought would ne defeated by the crossbowmen hidden up high on the towers at Harrenhal. And this is why no one would go with little guards. And Renly suspects the Lannisters of killing his brother, he would never trust them for a peace treaty. Quote Mace doesn't realise Loras loves Renly so he of course would believe this and the guards deaths can be covered up by saying Brienne was ordered by Renly to kill them all. He would never believe this. Mace doesn't know they are gay, but he knows they care for each other. He'd never buy that Renly killed Loras, specially not from the mouth of the enemy who claims that everyone in your side died during a diplomatic mission with them. No one would believe this. Would you? Quote The Martells of course will join in return for justice for Elia, they are being lead to believe they will be given Gregor Clegane, The Mountain who rides. They want "the destruction of Tywin Lannister and all he holds dear" and they want to keep Dorne out of the war. No way they would join the war just for the Mountain. Even less on Tywin's side. Quote Tywin would hire expert sailors who can safelt sail the ships and then they can escape on lifeboats. No one would accept the job. It means almost certain death. A wave makes a jar fall and you lose a whole ship and it's crew. It would never work. Quote Tywin will also build enough Wildfire to destroy all the boats So, he has to wait a few months or years until the Alchemists make enough. Quote The Tyrells won't see Tywin coming as he will send Adam Marbrand ahead to screen his march and defeat all the Tyrell scouts. What if he doesn't? What if he misses one? What of the smallfolk who see them? It's really hard to keep the moves of an army secret. Or else everyone would do it. And you need faint forces too, or else your enemies would be expecting a sneak attack. That's why Robb sent Roose. Quote The Martells will be caught unawares I am confident as they are in a foreign land and they think the Lannisters are friends. They hate the Lannisters, and the Lannisters betrayed almost everyone. No one has a reason to ally themselves with them. Quote I will then send a raven to Doran explaining the Tyrells killed the Dornish army but they were avenged, earning the love and fealty of Dorne. Doran wouldn't believe this. Never. He's not stupid. Quote Stannis would have no choice but to accept the challenge as he has been infiltrated and caught unawares in his solar. Then why not kill him? How do you know the infiltration would be successful? Quote Kevan will be commanded to build the fleet in time and to divert local craftsmen, blacksmiths etc. to build ships for the attack on the Iron Islands. Once defeated Kevan will be ordered to get them to bend the knee or be defeated for good. How do you know he could pull it off? Quote Jaime has no choice it was an order not a request. Jaime is a knight of the Kingsguard. It's his choice to make. Quote Jaime is warden of the East and West - South makes him far too powerful. Tywin is Warden of the West. And it makes more sense to give Jaime the lordship of Highgarden and make him the Warden of the South, as they are the same possition, mostly. You can make someone else the Warden of the East. Quote Wilas and all the Tyrells left can take the black or be defeated in single combat as Tywin has no lack of champions. What if they win the single combat? But then again, why would they accept it? They have no reason to, as the Lannisters have shown themselves to be the least trustworthy people in the world in this version of the story? Quote Highgarden will be Kevan's seat whilst Jaime returns to Casterly Rock to consolidate his power and assist Kevan in building the warfleet to fight the greyjoys. Why not send Kevan to Casterly Rock and leave the lord of Highgarden in Highgarden? Also, in all likelyhood, Kevan is a way better strategist than Jaime. Quote Cersei is regent as per OTL Tywin can change that. Quote Varys is useful this cannot be denied Oh yes, absolutely, Tywin would definitely keep him. Book version of Tywin that is, but since you seemed to be using information Tywin doesn't have to make your decisions, why not tip the guy off that Varys is conspiring against him? Quote Tyrion reveals Littlefinger set him up and is too untrustworthy in general and Tywin has him defeated in single combat You are a huge fan of single combat aren't you? Littlefinger would never go to combat, he knows he'll loose. He did before. Littlefinger would go to trial, words are his superpower, not swords. He definitely can convince Tywin to do nothing against him, or a jury. In fact, Tyrion didn't reveal that LF framed him. We don't know that he would. Quote Janos Slynt is a known traitor he is stripped of Harrenhal and executed which will be then given to Lancel. He betrayed lord Stark, for the Lannisters. No need to get rid of your own man for betraying someone for you. He shouldn't get Harrenhall tho, on that we agree. But why Lancel? Quote Tommen will be Lord of Storms end and Lord Paramount of the Stormlands and engaged to Arianne Martell. Would feminist, sexually liberated Arianne accept a marriage to an eight year old boy? Would Doran marry his heir to the second son of the enemies instead of Aegon? or instead of Joining Dany's cause? Quote Tyrion is in the North he is busy consolidating his power He wouldn't go to the North until he gets Sansa pregnant. Quote Littlefinger had to be cooking the books as I have read posts by finance experts who state as much. He cannot be allowed to stay also he was defeated in single combat after his arrest upon Tywin's return. Definitely he was cooking the books. No one knows that. Well, Tyrion is about to find out, but he can't if he's not Master of Coin. Quote The Hound is an excellent choice? He can fight with literally any weapon, doesn't afraid of anything and is devoted to the King. The 'isn't afraid of anything' bit is... um... not true. He's terrified of fire. But the Kingsguard aren't just about choosing good fighters, they are about making alliances, picking trustworthy men, and loyal servants. The Hound doesn't fit any of that. Just a tip: under a comment you would find a button that says "Quote" clicking there instantly quotes the whole comment in your next comment. You can then use cut and past, as well as the quotation marks on top of the comment you are writing to reply to more specific parts of a post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 On 11/23/2020 at 2:59 AM, Alyn Oakenfist said: Mate, play CK2 AGOT if you're into this kind of thing Or multi dimensional medieval Nolanesque chess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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