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Corvinus85

CA's Total War: The Celtic-Han-Lizardmen alliance that never was

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7 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I think it depends on how interesting those factions are. On the face of it 4 chaos factions and 2 human factions really just looks like 3 factions in total. My assumption though is that each chaos faction plays wildly differently. 
 

What I hope we don’t get is chaos rosters made up of standard chaos warriors, although maybe differently painted, and a handful of different daemon units. That would suck. 

Given that there is only 9 LL's to start with I'm guessing its more of the latter, 3 actual factions with some daemon specific units for the specific chaos faction.  2 LLs for Kislev and Cathay each and then 4 LL for Daemons leaves one, which I would guess to be another Kislev or Cathay.  Technically more than Warhammers 1 or 2 started with so hurray but really...... not.  Whomever is the early adapter DLC race will likely get a sort of crappy pack like the Norsca for WH2 or the marginally better Bretonnia one for WH1.  So pray it isn't the Ogres as I'd hope that would be more interesting.  Probably Chaos Dwarves.

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23 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

Given that there is only 9 LL's to start with I'm guessing its more of the latter, 3 actual factions with some daemon specific units for the specific chaos faction.  2 LLs for Kislev and Cathay each and then 4 LL for Daemons leaves one, which I would guess to be another Kislev or Cathay.  Technically more than Warhammers 1 or 2 started with so hurray but really...... not.  Whomever is the early adapter DLC race will likely get a sort of crappy pack like the Norsca for WH2 or the marginally better Bretonnia one for WH1.  So pray it isn't the Ogres as I'd hope that would be more interesting.  Probably Chaos Dwarves.

What about 2 each for Kislev and Cathay, 4 for the Daemons, and the last is another Empire lord? Like for Ostermark or something. It would help build out the northern part of the map alongside everything else being done, and wouldn't require that much work since I assume it would mostly be the Reikland unit roster.

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14 minutes ago, Fez said:

What about 2 each for Kislev and Cathay, 4 for the Daemons, and the last is another Empire lord? Like for Ostermark or something. It would help build out the northern part of the map alongside everything else being done, and wouldn't require that much work since I assume it would mostly be the Reikland unit roster.

I could see that or honestly a dwarf lord for Kraka Drak.

However I could also see them saying that area is already too crowded with the 2 vamp factions, kislev, the bone rattlaz or whatever stupid name those green skins have, drucha (sp?), The red bearded avengey dwarf, And throgg.

 

EDIT: Of course I was just thinking of ME there.  With the new map which likely has Kislev on the west end I doubt Ostermark or the likes will get one.  Maybe something in the area where Eshin/Dragon Elf/Super Emo Dark Elf are in ME.

Edited by Slurktan

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Apparently the game director had an interview with PC Gamer where he said the campaign map will be roughly twice the size of the Eye of the Vortex campaign, which is staggering. Even if you consider how much water there is in Vortex, that it's still huge, so lots and lots of room for more races and factions. The map will likely include a big chunk of the eastern lands, I'm thinking all of Grand Cathay and the Darklands, but maybe not Nippon, Ind and other stuff + the Realms of Chaos, however big those are.

As to the 9th legendary lord, if we can assume that per the game description, the playable factions at launch are only related to Kislev, Cathay and Chaos Daemons, then the 9th will only also be included among them. So it could be 3 Kislev, 2 Cathay and 4 Chaos, or another combination. One speculation I've seen is one specific LL for each Chaos god + one Undivided character though that would give Chaos 5 characters at launch, which seems a bit much. It could be 3 for Cathay, but where one is actually evil, like a Chaos cultist or in league with Skavens.

Edited by Corvinus85

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Yeah, since it's apparently only three factions to start with, one dedicated lord for each of the gods plus an undivided one (Be'lakor would be the most prominent one, I guess) would make sense. Otherwise Nagash might be a good option, with Nagashizzar being right there at the southwestern edge of the Dark Lands and with him being very much opposed to Chaos it would help balance things both geographically as well as on the order/disorder axis.

For the pre-order DLC that is presumably coming, Chaos Dwarfs makes the most sense to me, since they've already expanded the ME map to include the edges of the Dark Lands, whereas the Ogre Kingdoms are well beyond that.

 

I am wondering whether the southern coast of the Dark Lands will be included, and whether they'll include the like of Snikch, Imrik and Malus as factions on the WH3 campaign map from the get-go. Assuming they learned from the Norsca forking issues, doing so should be possible with minimal effort.

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The latest Legendary Lord to be added to the game is voiced by Ramsay Bolton. :D

 

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22 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

The latest Legendary Lord to be added to the game is voiced by Ramsay Bolton. :D

 

So I'd assume its going to be him and beastmen update for the last dlc.  For the FLC another beastmen lord so they keep the TW2 numbers even?

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3 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

So I'd assume its going to be him and beastmen update for the last dlc.  For the FLC another beastmen lord so they keep the TW2 numbers even?

Well he’s the FLC lord. So I’m assuming it will be Beastmen and another race. I know expectation is it will be one of the WH2 base races but I’m hoping they do Dwarves 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Well he’s the FLC lord. So I’m assuming it will be Beastmen and another race. I know expectation is it will be one of the WH2 base races but I’m hoping they do Dwarves 

Wait they've said this guy is the flc lord?  That seems odd.

 

EDIT: Considering he comes tomorrow I'd say confirmed.  Very interesting and out of the ordinary for WH2 dLC though since there wont be WH2 race lords in the  last pack(Unless they add a VP or TK or both).  Dwarves they kind of redid already but I could see the chaos dwarves similar to the Norsca thing where they can be used in WH2 ME.

Edited by Slurktan

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17 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

Wait they've said this guy is the flc lord?  That seems odd.

 

EDIT: Considering he comes tomorrow I'd say confirmed.  Very interesting and out of the ordinary for WH2 dLC though since there wont be WH2 race lords in the  last pack(Unless they add a VP or TK or both).  Dwarves they kind of redid already but I could see the chaos dwarves similar to the Norsca thing where they can be used in WH2 ME.

They could do Dark Elves but I don’t think they will. The patch notes include a bunch of changes to dark elves which rebalance based on this FLC guy. 
 

Beastmen are a given, then really in need of an update. I think the dwarves update needs another update because it was pretty lacklustre and they are now the least interesting race to play with very few unique mechanics. 
 

I don’t see what else it could be.

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That's correct, this is just a patch update + a FLC, focusing on the Dark Elves. CA hasn't announced anything about a Race DLC Pack. Most fans are looking at the Beastmen. 

I'm wondering though whether or not there will be a major DLC that also ties in with WH 3. Something like how Norsca were released for WH 1 and were available for WH 2 Mortal Empires (well with difficulty, that part got delayed)

So I could see a Beastmen + Dogs of War release, but that would be a really big DLC. 

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I don't see how DoW would fit into what we know of game 3. Beastmen make a certain kind of sense because they're a) an actual Chaos Aligned faction and b) completely shit right now. I just don't see how you'd fix them without also fixing the fact that hordes are simply no fun to play. That seems a rather tall order for the last DLC before moving on to game 3. So if Beastmen are part of the DLC I expect their content to be fairly mediocre (so hopefully still a step up from where they are right now...).

Factions that could potentially tie into game 3 directly would be anything in the Dark Lands or further to the east, like Neferata's vampire faction. That would also require very little effort on CA's part. They could also easily throw in some more stuff that's relatively cheap in terms of development cost to make up for a lack of really new content with quantity, like enabling Borid Todbringer and the Red Duke as starting LLs for their respective factions.

DoW on the other hand would be fairly expensive and they're mostly associated with Tilea, which won't be on the game 3 map.

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1 hour ago, Jon AS said:

I don't see how DoW would fit into what we know of game 3. Beastmen make a certain kind of sense because they're a) an actual Chaos Aligned faction and b) completely shit right now. I just don't see how you'd fix them without also fixing the fact that hordes are simply no fun to play. That seems a rather tall order for the last DLC before moving on to game 3. So if Beastmen are part of the DLC I expect their content to be fairly mediocre (so hopefully still a step up from where they are right now...).

Factions that could potentially tie into game 3 directly would be anything in the Dark Lands or further to the east, like Neferata's vampire faction. That would also require very little effort on CA's part. They could also easily throw in some more stuff that's relatively cheap in terms of development cost to make up for a lack of really new content with quantity, like enabling Borid Todbringer and the Red Duke as starting LLs for their respective factions.

DoW on the other hand would be fairly expensive and they're mostly associated with Tilea, which won't be on the game 3 map.

What I meant about the DoW, is they could be both in the ME map, and a sub-faction could be in WH 3. But I think you're right, mainly because CA might want to wait on them until more races are fleshed out, especially the Ogres. That way, the Dogs of War could have a proper mercenary roster.

And on the Beastmen, they absolutely need to rework the hordes. It will be an undertaking, for sure.

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I've started playing Three Kingdoms again. The new update + DLC have added more content and some good rework. I've not played Troy yet, but I think it's safe to say 3K is the most complex TW game yet.

It does have a few fairly big things that caused me to not play the game near as much as Warhammer or other older ones:

  • Not sure what CA was thinking when they made the map, but I find it harder to read. The terrain, the settlements, the fog of war, all feels more constricting. A 3K game with a Warhammer like map would be superb.
  • If I spoke Mandarin and/or was strongly familiar with Chinese culture and history, I would have a much easier time, but I don't so it can get hard to keep track of all the characters, but worse it's keeping track of all the factions, since the banners are all one Chinese symbol on a color. (I'm sure it's era appropriate)
  • The added DLCs and updates maybe have increased replayability, but not sure how much. The vanilla game didn't have much replayability, with most factions being just too close to each other.

But the game has a lot, a lot of good going for it. Like I said, it is the most complex TW game. I've started a campaign with Cao Cao in the year 190. Cao Cao has been reworked to where his credibility currency can be used for  a lot more than just to influence other factions to go to war with each other. You can enact schemes against enemies, or on allies and own characters. For example, I've enacted a scheme to flatter one of my generals which reduced his retinue's upkeep by half.

But some of the more important reworks are for the entire game - your faction council is far less annoying and way more beneficial. Instead of just you doing missions given by councilors to temporarily increase some satisfaction, public order or taxes, they actually present you with various unique options for you to choose, which only costs you some money to enact. And they only meet at the beginning of each year, so they really do feel like a council. When you upgrade in rank, you get points, like a RPG character getting skill points, only this is for your faction, and you choose to spend them on being able to raise more armies, or being able to sign more trade agreements, or have more spies etc. Another new feature is imperial favor and imperial intrigue. Imperial favor decreases every time you attack Han forces, while intrigue triggers only in 197, when the emperor reaches maturity, but he may still remain a puppet. And you control him, and use him to declare other Han factions enemies of the state which decreases their relations with the rest of the Han factions.

So far in my Cao Cao campaign, I've gained control of two commanderies. I've put the lady wife in charge of one, and one of my generals in charge of the other. I'm at Second Marquis rank now, so I don't have all court positions filled yet. I've killed Tao Qian in a battle, after I declared war on him because he killed my father, then made peace with his faction. I've mainly been fighting Han forces and yellow turbans. Yuan Shao declared war against me for no reason at all, and really way too early if we're to follow history, but I got friendly factions as buffers between our territories. My oldest son reached maturity and I made him heir (the second son was default heir) because I would get some benefits from that. One of the council edicts allowed me to "hire a tutor" for him, which started increasing his experience really fast.

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17 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

I've started playing Three Kingdoms again. The new update + DLC have added more content and some good rework. I've not played Troy yet, but I think it's safe to say 3K is the most complex TW game yet.

It does have a few fairly big things that caused me to not play the game near as much as Warhammer or other older ones:

  • Not sure what CA was thinking when they made the map, but I find it harder to read. The terrain, the settlements, the fog of war, all feels more constricting. A 3K game with a Warhammer like map would be superb.
  • If I spoke Mandarin and/or was strongly familiar with Chinese culture and history, I would have a much easier time, but I don't so it can get hard to keep track of all the characters, but worse it's keeping track of all the factions, since the banners are all one Chinese symbol on a color. (I'm sure it's era appropriate)
  • The added DLCs and updates maybe have increased replayability, but not sure how much. The vanilla game didn't have much replayability, with most factions being just too close to each other.

But the game has a lot, a lot of good going for it. Like I said, it is the most complex TW game. I've started a campaign with Cao Cao in the year 190. Cao Cao has been reworked to where his credibility currency can be used for  a lot more than just to influence other factions to go to war with each other. You can enact schemes against enemies, or on allies and own characters. For example, I've enacted a scheme to flatter one of my generals which reduced his retinue's upkeep by half.

But some of the more important reworks are for the entire game - your faction council is far less annoying and way more beneficial. Instead of just you doing missions given by councilors to temporarily increase some satisfaction, public order or taxes, they actually present you with various unique options for you to choose, which only costs you some money to enact. And they only meet at the beginning of each year, so they really do feel like a council. When you upgrade in rank, you get points, like a RPG character getting skill points, only this is for your faction, and you choose to spend them on being able to raise more armies, or being able to sign more trade agreements, or have more spies etc. Another new feature is imperial favor and imperial intrigue. Imperial favor decreases every time you attack Han forces, while intrigue triggers only in 197, when the emperor reaches maturity, but he may still remain a puppet. And you control him, and use him to declare other Han factions enemies of the state which decreases their relations with the rest of the Han factions.

So far in my Cao Cao campaign, I've gained control of two commanderies. I've put the lady wife in charge of one, and one of my generals in charge of the other. I'm at Second Marquis rank now, so I don't have all court positions filled yet. I've killed Tao Qian in a battle, after I declared war on him because he killed my father, then made peace with his faction. I've mainly been fighting Han forces and yellow turbans. Yuan Shao declared war against me for no reason at all, and really way too early if we're to follow history, but I got friendly factions as buffers between our territories. My oldest son reached maturity and I made him heir (the second son was default heir) because I would get some benefits from that. One of the council edicts allowed me to "hire a tutor" for him, which started increasing his experience really fast.

I am a huge three kingdoms nerd and I like the game my problem with it is the same with all the accurate historical TW games, all the armies are the same.  I do like the new start date though as Cao Cao and Yuan Shao (and Sun Ce and Liu Biao to lesser extents) in that one are giant blobs on the map that you have to worry about all sorts of things off the hop.  Kind of like say the two roman empires in Attila or the HRE in Med 2, Not just the usual start with one city expand at your leisure gameplay that CA loves.

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So my Cao Cao campaign in 3K is sort of hitting an impasse. I've not conquered as much as the historical Cao Cao did by this time. I'm in the year 201, and I have four commanderies. I have two full armies, and my faction council is now almost full, still don't have a prime minister. 

The emperor has come of age, so imperial intrigue is factoring in. The impasse is that my credibility will soon run out. They've reworked the mechanic, so now credibility decays over time, instead of increasing. The only way that I found to increase it is through positive schemes done on my own faction, but there is a cool down for each scheme, and the schemes that give you the most credibility points also have the longest cool down. I'm not sure what will happen when my credibility reaches 0. Will I start losing imperial favor?

Other than that, my economy is doing fairly well, and I'm basically the bread basket for several factions, which keeps me infused with cash.

 

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16 minutes ago, Toth said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLYIHoBb3kM

Okay, this one is unexpected.

Excellent, as long as there's mod compatibility with all the old stuff. This suggests that Medieval II will also get the same treatment, we could get 4K versions of things like Third AgeCall of Warhammer and Westeros. Outstanding and very unexpected.

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2 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Excellent, as long as there's mod compatibility with all the old stuff. This suggests that Medieval II will also get the same treatment, we could get 4K versions of things like Third AgeCall of Warhammer and Westeros. Outstanding and very unexpected.

I expect the mods will have to be remade, like the Homeworld mods.

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