Alyn Oakenfist Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 So by the end of ADWD Varys starts getting his hands dirty and kills Kevan and Pycelle in order to allow Cersei do bring her kind, gentle and wise style of leadership back, the one the guarantees Aegon being King in no time. But isn't killing Tommen easier? For all the good Cersei is going to do for Varys and Aegon, her coming to power has limited immediate consequences. Killing Tommen would do a number of things: - First and most importantly it would permanently sever the Lannister-Tyrell alliance. With no one left to marry to Margery they'd either go neutral or just straight up ally with Aegon, probably without even needing a marriage to do it. Regardless it would remove 40 thousand troops from the Lannister cause and leave KL exposed. As if that wasn't good enough - Myrcella becoming the new Lannister puppet would pose major problems. Not only is she currently traveling with the Dornish who knows were, liable to any number of freak occurrences, which would leave the Lannisters well and truly fucked, but she's also a woman which would pose massive issues for the Lannisters. So in just one killing Varys would eliminate the Lannisters most powerful and crucial ally, leave them disorganized with their only potential figure a woman in grave danger of mysterious accidents. So why did Varys instead opt to kill Kevan and Pycelle (yes I know we need a big King's Landing climax, but what is the reason in the books) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Young Maester Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 I have one answer..... Plot convenience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Because he doesn't kill children. And because it is more difficult to get Tommen who is safe inside Maegor's. And to be sure - killing Kevan and Pycelle could have more problematic consequences than killing Tommen. It creates an actual power vacuum. If Tommen had been slain, Myrcella would be crowned and Willas Tyrell would be married to her, and Kevan and Mace would continue to work together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrettyLittlePsycho Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Hm, I do believe Varys actually has the best of the realm in mind. And killing Tommen could have unforeseen consequences. Leaving the kingdoms without a "legitimate" ruler could lead to all kinds of feuds ,rebellions, whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Young Maester Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said: Because he doesn't kill children. And because it is more difficult to get Tommen who is safe inside Maegor's. And to be sure - killing Kevan and Pycelle could have more problematic consequences than killing Tommen. It creates an actual power vacuum. If Tommen had been slain, Myrcella would be crowned and Willas Tyrell would be married to her, and Kevan and Mace would continue to work together. There you go. An answer provided by Varys himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 For what it's worth, I speculated that Varys might kill Tommen soon back before ADwD. George had let it slip that Varys is still in KL before ADwD came out. But Kevan was much better - the reason I didn't consider that all that seriously was that it wasn't clear he would become the new regent. Pycelle and Swyft invited him, but with Tarly and Mace likely arriving first they could have seized all the power, completely shutting out the Lannister faction. That this did not happen we only learned when ADwD came out. And, of course, we didn't know about Aegon's invasion then. As the time for a Targaryen restoration approaches Varys will remove all the obstacles from the board. Which is also part of the reason why it is silly to assume that Lannisters or Tyrells can cling to power in KL now. Varys will ensure that Aegon takes the city, most likely even without bloodshed, probably in a similar manner as Larys Strong arranged the downfall of Queen Rhaenyra and King Aegon II to hand the city without bloodshed to the Lads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted November 23, 2020 Author Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Lord Varys said: Because he doesn't kill children. You do know this is Varys we're talking about? The one from the A Song of Ice and Fire book series. not the abomination. 2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said: And because it is more difficult to get Tommen who is safe inside Maegor's. True, but it's easier killing one kid than 2 adults. 3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said: It creates an actual power vacuum. If Tommen had been slain, Myrcella would be crowned Myrcella is unaccounted for at the moment. Kinda hard to be crowned. 4 minutes ago, Lord Varys said: Myrcella would be crowned and Willas Tyrell would be married to her That would pose several problems, Willas is the heir to Highgarden, he's many, many, many years older the Myrcella, Myrcella is disfigured, Willas is a cripple, it's just so messy I doubt the Tyrells would boder. Easier to try and marry Margery to Aegon, because maybe 4th time's the charm in her case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: You do know this is Varys we're talking about? The one from the A Song of Ice and Fire book series. not the abomination. Varys hasn't murdered a child so far, and the Epilogue indicates he doesn't want to harm Tommen. He wants to ruin him, yes, but not necessarily kill him. 1 minute ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: True, but it's easier killing one kid than 2 adults. If you are just Varys and a bunch of little birds than the latter is actually easier than the former. They cannot get to Tommen directly because Maegor's is safe from them, and they can also not really isolate the king's person or lure him into the kind of trap they used for Kevan. 1 minute ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Myrcella is unaccounted for at the moment. Kinda hard to be crowned. She is on route to KL as far as we know. Might not get there, but chances are good that she shows up there soon. 1 minute ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: That would pose several problems, Willas is the heir to Highgarden, he's many, many, many years older the Myrcella, Myrcella is disfigured, Willas is a cripple, it's just so messy I doubt the Tyrells would boder. Easier to try and marry Margery to Aegon, because maybe 4th time's the charm in her case. No, that isn't problematic since the Dornish betrothal won't survive the revelation that Arianne Martell caused Myrcella's disfigurement. And if you double-check the Epilogue then Mace already wants to marry Myrcella to Willas. He pushes Kevan to dissolve the Martell betrothal and Kevan thinks he does that because he wants Myrcella for Willas. In fact, if Myrcella does not end up as Aegon's queen she might become the 'Queen in Highgarden' as Willas' wife after Tommen dies. If the Tyrells have to give up KL, Myrcella could be spirited away to Highgarden. Assuming she doesn't die together with Tommen or soon after. And, of course, this would only be an interesting if Margaery dies as well ... or is completely ruined or Aegon refuses to marry her. Which is likely if he ends up with Arianne before he even takes the Iron Throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: True, but it's easier killing one kid than 2 adults How? That dude is held down. As Lefty would say, Jesus Christ couldn't touch him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X-Buster Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Because Tommen is not the power. He's just a figurehead. He serves the interest of Varys for the moment and poses no threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Because Tommen is sweet? And a perfect puppet/figurehead? And Myrcella being slightly more self confident and a lot more intelligent may pose probs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 8 hours ago, Lord Varys said: Because he doesn't kill children. Just lol. Varys mutilates and kills children by the dozens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 6 minutes ago, Mithras said: Just lol. Varys mutilates and kills children by the dozens. He employs mutilated children ... he doesn't mutilate them himself. And they die doing their jobs. Nobody ever says anything about them being killed. You do have to read the books, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Lord Varys said: He employs mutilated children ... he doesn't mutilate them himself. And they die doing their jobs. Nobody ever says anything about them being killed. You do have to read the books, you know. vArYS diD nOtHiNg wROnG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pontius Pilate Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 It's coming. Varys is waiting for the perfect moment. Tommen will have to go for any of the Targaryens to sit on the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay21 Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Cercei is the chaos gift that keeps on giving. Leaving Tommen alive and eliminating Kevan allows Cercei to keep 'control' which means that decisions will be made based on her personal interest instead of any coordinated defense of Westeros. Westeros will be divided as long as she remains. Tommen's time will come, but right now he's doing good work on Faegon's behalf just by being alive. Cercei is the wedge that will split the Tyrells from the Lannisters and get all of those small folk sewing dragon banners behind closed doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 28 minutes ago, Jay21 said: Cercei is the chaos gift that keeps on giving. Leaving Tommen alive and eliminating Kevan allows Cercei to keep 'control' which means that decisions will be made based on her personal interest instead of any coordinated defense of Westeros. Westeros will be divided as long as she remains. Tommen's time will come, but right now he's doing good work on Faegon's behalf just by being alive. Cercei is the wedge that will split the Tyrells from the Lannisters and get all of those small folk sewing dragon banners behind closed doors. This so much. He wants as many people turning on Cercie as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 37 minutes ago, Jay21 said: Cercei is the chaos gift that keeps on giving. Leaving Tommen alive and eliminating Kevan allows Cercei to keep 'control' which means that decisions will be made based on her personal interest instead of any coordinated defense of Westeros. Westeros will be divided as long as she remains. Tommen's time will come, but right now he's doing good work on Faegon's behalf just by being alive. Cercei is the wedge that will split the Tyrells from the Lannisters and get all of those small folk sewing dragon banners behind closed doors. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 No one is sewing dragon banners behind closed doors lol. That was just the drivel of Viserys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted November 24, 2020 Author Share Posted November 24, 2020 6 minutes ago, Mithras said: No one is sewing dragon banners behind closed doors lol. That was just the drivel of Viserys. If Cersei continues with her genius? They will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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