Expanse #5 Game done changed.

[Corvinus85]

I'm still confused about them forgetting about Marco's protomolecule threat. This past episode showed that Avasarala thinks he still has the protomolecule, therefore she is not in real time communication with Bobbie or Holden. I guess they decided to call his bluff on it.

Also Marco is being stupid about his war against the inners. He praises the sacrifice of the Golden Bough ships, but the Belt doesn't have the shipyards Earth or Mars have to produce warships. His 9 warship flotilla will eventually be outgunned as others have mentioned.

 

[Mexal]

Spoiler

Well, that's one way to handle the Alex is a sexual predator thing...

 

[Kalbear]

New ep and

Spoiler

CRYING LIKE A BABY AT NAOMI

 

[Mexal]

9 minutes ago, KalbearAnon said:

New ep and

  Hide contents

CRYING LIKE A BABY AT NAOMI

 

Spoiler

My wife too.

 

[divica]

First, I think people have to take into account that who read the books can look for and spot details that who is just watching the show can t.

After watching the last ep anyone watching the show can't think that what amos went through is something global or that there is some huge crisis on earth. Nobody talks about anything bad happening on a global scale and even the government isn t taking any actions about solving a huge crisis. It just makes amos story very fillery... 

In regards to the rest. I think the pace was so bad in the last eps that they could have added much more content in this season. I am sorry, but saving naomi doesn t have half the weight that the past seasons had with them trying to save planets or destroying the proto molecule. Making the second half of the season entirely about it was a huge mistake for me.

[mcbigski]

Was going to just let this one sit for a day.  but folks already posting.

Spoiler

That was something.  

From a production point of view, I assume they just cgi'ed the blood droplets and used a still of Alex, then re-shot everyone else as needed.  But, not only pretty efficient, it's even book adjacent.  Did they kill off Fred early just to save the stroke for Alex or was that just coincidence?

So does Bull stick around as the pilot now, or Clarissa?  Could go either way, I'd say Clarissa is the favorite, just because it means one fewer regular to pay, and Bezos probably is looking at a salary reduction.  Gotta tighten the belt, so to speak.

Also, is the Pallas a Belter or Martian ship?  It's better lit than most of the Belter ships we've seen.  But the stairs down from Marcos's hangout spot would lead to lots of smashing of heads for taller people.  Belters or Bobby.  I think I saw a little bit of padding on the edge there, but still.  Not sure how tall the Marcos actor is, he looks about the same height as Filip when they are together, but Filip looks taller on his own.  Maybe Marcos has a Napoleon thing going on too?  Being 6'5" with a full head of hair and half Polish dong, I mostly am guessing about male insecurities.

Also, not an expert on space pirate group marriage, but I do feel that Drummer was mostly the outsider in that crew, and one of the newer members.  Was there anything before this season that connected her to anyone there?  Or did they just run with putting her into the Michio Pa role too because they liked her work?

 

[Poobah]

Spoiler

Good episode and a very spooky ending.

Dominique Tipper continued to be amazing as Naomi this episode, that was a great performance conveying so much emotion so well.

The conversation between Holden and Amos about Clarissa except Holden has no idea had me actually laughing which is rare.  

I wonder what wizardry they managed to kill off Alex, I guess some reshoots with the rest of the cast and CGI-ing him dead in the chair? Whole they'd obviously have played up the drama of his death and the difficulty of his manoeuvrers more if it were actually in the original plan I thought that it was very well done and didn't feel too jarring or an afterthought.  

I haven't yet read Nemesis Games (just starting Cibola Burn) but it seems like Michio Pa was replaced here with Drummer like she was in Abaddon's Gate - I'm curious why they didn't just name the Drummer character in the show as Michio instead since she seems to be wholly replacing her? I'm don't even remember any character named Carmina Drummer appearing so far in the books. 

 

[Corvinus85]

11 minutes ago, Poobah said:

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Good episode and a very spooky ending.

Dominique Tipper continued to be amazing as Naomi this episode, that was a great performance conveying so much emotion so well.

The conversation between Holden and Amos about Clarissa except Holden has no idea had me actually laughing which is rare.  

I wonder what wizardry they managed to kill off Alex, I guess some reshoots with the rest of the cast and CGI-ing him dead in the chair? Whole they'd obviously have played up the drama of his death and the difficulty of his manoeuvrers more if it were actually in the original plan I thought that it was very well done and didn't feel too jarring or an afterthought.  

I haven't yet read Nemesis Games (just starting Cibola Burn) but it seems like Michio Pa was replaced here with Drummer like she was in Abaddon's Gate - I'm curious why they didn't just name the Drummer character in the show as Michio instead since she seems to be wholly replacing her? I'm don't even remember any character named Carmina Drummer appearing so far in the books. 

 

There is a Drummer in the books.

[mcbigski]

Camina, not Carmina, but Drummer on the show is bit of a pastiche (Book Drummer, Pa, and a little Sam Rosen too).  I assume they just like actor, which I can't argue with.  Dawes and Ashford are both fantastic show characters that to me way outshine the book characters as well.

There are several characters from the books that I thought they made up for the show that rereading made me go oops.  Anna and Avasarala's spy/body guard guy for two off the top of my head.  I thought they made up the Martian Alex had wine with until this episode too, but I definitely remember parts of that last scene from the book.  Also, that wasn't how I pictured it, but it worked for me.

Spoiler

If you're going to show someone diffusing over a larger scale, how do you have any context clues?  Doing it in bits and pieces worked as far as the as the visual, and they definitely seeded enough Laconia stuff for the next season.  Though did Sauvaterre  give the right pronounciation?

 

[Corvinus85]

Wow, what an episode, but so bittersweet.

Spoiler

When you realize that the last three episodes were written to justify naming this one Nemesis Games.  Still, it was a good build up, and the tension broke the meter in this one.

First, the episode certainly made up for the lack of space conflict and slower pacing of its predecessors. I'm going have to re-watch the Roci's battle because damn, and the one at the Ring was good, too. They really used the CGI budget well.

I have mixed feelings about Alex. I blame Cas Anvar for forcing the writers in this position, almost like how Drummer was forced in her decisions. hmm... They did their best to butter it up with his death being a worthy sacrifice, and giving him another character's book death, but I'm still pissed. But I'm more unhappy about the apparent replacement, Bull. I've read an article I agree with where it was outlined that Bull's personality just wouldn't jive with the rest of the crew; he's too dour, and too racist (Loved that moment when Holden put him in his place). Alex was the jovial one of the bunch, who could balance the rest of the crew. So I hope Clarissa and Bobbie stick around, the two of them can pilot the ship even in dire situations. Though Bull showed himself highly capable in that regard.

Speaking of, Amos's conversation with Holden was glorious. And Clarissa has really shown herself to try to grow a more upbeat and good personality.

Drummer needs some positive things to go her way. Cara Gee has delivered some strong performances these past few episodes, but I hope her character can grow (which for those who've read the books, I think we know in which direction her character can go to allow for this growth)

As to the end scene - awesome. Non-readers are likely to be confused, though the first episode did set it up a bit, but damn, that was a great visual moment, and I'm excited to see what they'll do with Laconia. Of course, there is only one more season, and my hope is they leave enough room for more a little later.

 

[briantw]

Spoiler

Best part of that episode was how Amos worked Holden over and put him in a position so he couldn't say no to Clarissa.  Fucking hilarious. 

 

[mcbigski]

25 minutes ago, briantw said:

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Best part of that episode was how Amos worked Holden over and put him in a position so he couldn't say no to Clarissa.  Fucking hilarious. 

Yeah that was good, but IIRC book Amos knew that Holden was looking for a pardon for Naomi, so he leveraged that.  Either way, a great scene.  IDK, probably a conscious choice, but Clarissa was no make up, down play attractiveness that scene, which they also did with Draper too.  Which could be a statement on beauty standards, but it's not like they grimeyed up Holden or Bull or Amos.

 

[Sharpes]

Spoiler

Did they finish filming before or after Anvar was told to leave the show? Or even before they knew about his behaviour? If that last scene with Alex (Cas Anvar) was live recorded with him that was certainly a gut punch to his performance on the show. Jesus christ on a stick, the show's staff must have been pissed about what he did.

 

Imagine being a Marco supporter in the Belt and your saviour just high tailed out of the system. :O

 

As a not-caught-up-to-that-book reader I am confused about the final scene. I figure it had something to do with the things Dr. Elvi Okoye saw on Illus when she fell through the orb? The Expanse wiki calls them Unknown Aggressors.

 

Had to watch the fight scene a second time to figure out what was happening. If I understand correctly Drummer fired a torpedo and knocked out the drive on her fellow ship Dewalt to incapacitate it (but not destroy). She then fires a salvo of torpedos at the Koto (the Free Navy destroyer) which are intercepted but serve to distract it as the Roci gets in two railgun rounds. We then have the Belter Josep (back on the Dewalt with Oksana I think?) when he says "what we should have done before" and fires on the Serrio Mal (Free Navy Heavy Frigate); again, while it's distracted the Roci manages to flank it and fire its railgun forward of the ship that lead to its fusion core exploding. Not sure where the Mowteng comes into the fight, guessing they stood down at the time Camina told them to  before she was grabbed.

 

I thought the scenes with Naomi on the Chetzemoka dragged on and there wasn't enough emphasis on the response to the attack on Earth (or even Mars since their parliament got attacked?) but the season overall was not bad, it had all the elements leading up to the Mars faction and Inaros leaving through the ring gate. I'll have to go back and see those holoscreens Marcos was glancing at throughout the season and see if he was also looking at the trajectory of the micro-meteors hitting the UNN-MCRN fleet at the ring (was that also a reason Filip was sent to attack the science ship at Venus?).

 

[Werthead]

I have to say it's an interesting choice:

Spoiler

To do so much setup for Books 7-9 when they're not being adapted, unless Amazon have confirmed privately behind the scenes that they're doing a sequel series.

The Anvar situation was handled about as well as could be expected.

Spoiler

They must have come back and reshot those scenes, including the entire party scene, which would not be cheap.

 

[karaddin]

It really turned out fortuitously

Spoiler

That they changed Fred's death as it freed up the stroking out death for Alex. When Bobbie was radioing him and getting no response I joked that "Poochie died on his way to rescue Naomi" and that's seriously what they did lol.

I liked Amos' line to Holden about it being a good way to die and a risk that he chose, all 3 of them threw themselves in the path of death attempting to save the others this episode, Alex just happened to be the one that died.

And once again fuck Cas for tainting that character. He was one of my favorites and this whole season I've been angry at him the way Bobbie was in the first ep. The "legitimate salvage" plaque at the end brought it back to book Alex and made me feel the grief that I should have been feeling.

Also wonderful tension at the end with it feeling like a victory lap on Luna only for the penny to drop with the attack on the ring. I appreciated that the foreshadowing of the "Mateox2000" trajectory on Marco's screen was exactly what the name suggested.

 

[SpaceChampion]

 

[Denvek]

18 hours ago, Poobah said:

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Good episode and a very spooky ending.

Dominique Tipper continued to be amazing as Naomi this episode, that was a great performance conveying so much emotion so well.

The conversation between Holden and Amos about Clarissa except Holden has no idea had me actually laughing which is rare.  

I wonder what wizardry they managed to kill off Alex, I guess some reshoots with the rest of the cast and CGI-ing him dead in the chair? Whole they'd obviously have played up the drama of his death and the difficulty of his manoeuvrers more if it were actually in the original plan I thought that it was very well done and didn't feel too jarring or an afterthought.  

I haven't yet read Nemesis Games (just starting Cibola Burn) but it seems like Michio Pa was replaced here with Drummer like she was in Abaddon's Gate - I'm curious why they didn't just name the Drummer character in the show as Michio instead since she seems to be wholly replacing her? I'm don't even remember any character named Carmina Drummer appearing so far in the books. 

 

 

Spoiler

Book Drummer doesn't appear until Nemesis Games (where she mostly has the role show-Bull has) - show-Drummer is a merging of book-Sam and book-Michio, plus all the role-swapping on the Behemoth in Season 3 from book-Ashford/Michio/Bull/Sam to show-Drummer/Ashford/Naomi

 

[Kalbear]

13 hours ago, Sharpes said:

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Imagine being a Marco supporter in the Belt and your saviour just high tailed out of the system. :O

 

Spoiler

To be clear Inaros didn't leave the system; he helped take over the ring for his own use. Now no one  can leave Earth system without Free Navy say so.

13 hours ago, Sharpes said:

 

As a not-caught-up-to-that-book reader I am confused about the final scene. I figure it had something to do with the things Dr. Elvi Okoye saw on Illus when she fell through the orb? The Expanse wiki calls them Unknown Aggressors.

Spoiler

Correct. They're what Holden occasionally witnesses when he goes through the rings at the end of season 3 and what Elvi witnessed when going into the angry orb. It is still unclear what they are, but people think  that they are what ended the creators of the protomolecule. 

13 hours ago, Sharpes said:

 

Had to watch the fight scene a second time to figure out what was happening. If I understand correctly Drummer fired a torpedo and knocked out the drive on her fellow ship Dewalt to incapacitate it (but not destroy). She then fires a salvo of torpedos at the Koto (the Free Navy destroyer) which are intercepted but serve to distract it as the Roci gets in two railgun rounds. We then have the Belter Josep (back on the Dewalt with Oksana I think?) when he says "what we should have done before" and fires on the Serrio Mal (Free Navy Heavy Frigate); again, while it's distracted the Roci manages to flank it and fire its railgun forward of the ship that lead to its fusion core exploding. Not sure where the Mowteng comes into the fight, guessing they stood down at the time Camina told them to  before she was grabbed.

Spoiler

Close. Here's what happens as far as I know

• Drummer blew up the drive on DeWalt, taking it out of the fight entirely
• Fires at the Koto, which allows the Roci to rail it
• Josep is on the Mowteng and fires on the Serrio Mal, which allows the Roci to rail it

 

[Werthead]

Ah, apparently:

Spoiler

They edited or painted Anvar out of the party scenes and then tweaked some of Avasarala's dialogue in post, then reshot the hallway reunion and Holden/Naomi scene after COVID precautions (which is why they couldn't reshoot the party scene).

 

[DaveSumm]

Could we please pretty please mention if the spoilers are book spoilers ... or can we just call this a spoiler thread up to the latest episode, so by default all spoilers are book spoilers? Or something.

Most of that episode was really great, the Naomi rescue was one of the best scenes the show has done. The initial battle looked cool, although tbh I had no idea who was shooting at who. It just all looked cool. I kinda followed the ending, up until the weird transit bit? What was that? And I don’t really follow the Martian teacher guy’s motivations at all.