His Dark Materials II

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

I really enjoyed the last episode too, and thought the scenes with

Lee and Mrs Coulter were a good addition.

I think the actor playing Boreal does a really good job with what he’s given, and I quite like Amir Wilson too, but I am still a little underwhelmed by Dafne Keen’s Lyra. I’m not sure if it’s her or the direction or editing, but it’s still not quite landing for me which is a shame. I did like the little scene in the cinema though, and I do think she works well with Wilson, which is good because I think building up their characters’ relationship is the most important part of the second book.

 

Edit: spoiler tags added. Are we doing spoilers for the episodes that have aired?

[dog-days]

I've just been using spoiler tags for stuff from the books. 

I definitely had problems with the portrayal of Lyra last season - I thought she was way too serious and glum, lacking playfulness. And they over-egged her friendship with Roger. But I'm pretty sold on her this season - I think the writers have lightened her characterisation a bit, and she's also at a point where some additional seriousness makes sense. So I just watch her and pretend her S1 characterisation didn't happen. 

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Oh yeah there’s a marked improvement over last season to be fair, it’s just still quite there for me.

[Isis]

RED PANDA PAN!

That whole scene was perfect. 

[Poobah]

Overall a pretty good episode. I, too, loved Pan as a red panda!

My only real complaint is with regards to the needless exposition voice over at the start. Who was it that was supposed to be giving it anyway? The actors for Lyra and Will are both shaping up pretty well, I think, which bodes well as they're gonna have to do a lot of work in the final season.

[dog-days]

28 minutes ago, Poobah said:

Overall a pretty good episode. I, too, loved Pan as a red panda!

My only real complaint is with regards to the needless exposition voice over at the start. Who was it that was supposed to be giving it anyway? The actors for Lyra and Will are both shaping up pretty well, I think, which bodes well as they're gonna have to do a lot of work in the final season.

Yes, agreed. I think the VO sounded like Serafina Pekkala. No idea why it was there. Pointless interruption of the flow.

I enjoyed the episode, but thought Paradiso (Terence Stamp) may have been miscast. Will and Lyra are pretty good at acting with each other, and getting better, but the interaction between Paradiso and Will seemed quite wooden. As if Stamp was focusing on his own acting rather than on trying to bounce off Amir Wilson. And since Stamp has decades of experience, you'd expect him to know he needed to make more of an effort along those lines. Mind you, the direction of the scene may have been to blame too. 

Didn't think we needed the bit with Will being half-suspended from the tower - it was too cliché. You can get away with that kind of thing if you have a Marvel budget, but it rarely works on TV.  

I liked the scenes between Mrs Coulter and Lord Boreal. The daemons added this extra fascinating element to their conversation in the restaurant. Tangentially, I also liked Mrs Coulter's hat. 

[Maltaran]

10 hours ago, Isis said:

RED PANDA PAN!

That whole scene was perfect. 

He needs to be a red panda more often

[Mosi Mynn]

I liked the people who did not know any better interactig with Pan and how it affected Lyra - the boy kicking Pan (probably thinking he was Lyra's pet) and Will touching Pan - or rather, Pan touching Will.  The latter is hugely significant and sweet: Lyra's soul cares about Will!  I doubt Pan has ever willingly touched any human apart from Lyra before.

I wonder if people who have not read the books are wondering how Will's Dad has a daemon, and how she can fly so far from him.

I'm loving Lee and Hester more and more

Spoiler

Getting ready to sob like a baby.  And even though we see Lee again, it's without Hester 

 

[Isis]

1 hour ago, Mosi Mynn said:

I liked the people who did not know any better interactig with Pan and how it affected Lyra - the boy kicking Pan (probably thinking he was Lyra's pet) and Will touching Pan - or rather, Pan touching Will.  The latter is hugely significant and sweet: Lyra's soul cares about Will!  I doubt Pan has ever willingly touched any human apart from Lyra before.

I wonder if people who have not read the books are wondering how Will's Dad has a daemon, and how she can fly so far from him.

I'm loving Lee and Hester more and more

  Hide contents

Getting ready to sob like a baby.  And even though we see Lee again, it's without Hester 

 

This scene was so memorable in the excellent full cast Radio 4 adaptation and I expected that the TV show wouldn't live up to that. BUT IT DID. I think that if I had a daemon it would probably be touching people all over the place as I am a big sack of emotions and I quite often feel an intense rush of emotion for others; I feel it physically, like my metaphorical heart is being crushed. But they definitely make it clear that it isn't the norm here and that it is a significant event. 

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Agreed that the exposition at the start was pointless, and that the moment of Pan touching Will felt wooden. I think my issues with the series are boiling down to the direction after all. Sorry Dafne, I take back what I said.

From what I recall, in the book Pan licks Will’s hand because he’s crying about the wound that won’t stop bleeding. He thinks it’s a kind gesture, but doesn’t understand the gravity of it. Lyra is sitting there in silence thinking what the fuck. I don’t think they’ve discussed much of the taboo of human-daemon interaction in the show, which is what they would have needed to do to make the scene feel less clunky.

 

I did enjoy the episode otherwise, though I’m pretty sure they mixed of the locations of the windows in the two Oxfords and Cittagazze. The window they went through at the end should have gone into our Oxford, right?

[williamjm]

I thought it was another good episode, although I agree that the exposition at the start was unnecessary - it didn't even tell us anything that the rest of the episode wasn't going to tell in a less clunky manner.

On 11/29/2020 at 10:48 PM, dog-days said:

I liked the scenes between Mrs Coulter and Lord Boreal. The daemons added this extra fascinating element to their conversation in the restaurant. Tangentially, I also liked Mrs Coulter's hat. 

That was another good scene, particularly for the golden monkey's reaction. I also liked the scene stepping through the doorway into Citigazze with Mrs Coulter urging the monkey through first.

I was amused by how badly Boreal misjudges his earlier conversation with Mary. For someone so arrogant and convinced that he's a master manipulator he did managed to do just about everything wrong in that brief conversation.

The scene with the witches taken on the Magisterium fleet was very satisfying, although it does raise the question of why they didn't attack the airships during the bombing raid last episode.

[Isis]

11 hours ago, Stannis Eats No Peaches said:

Agreed that the exposition at the start was pointless, and that the moment of Pan touching Will felt wooden. I think my issues with the series are boiling down to the direction after all. Sorry Dafne, I take back what I said.

From what I recall, in the book Pan licks Will’s hand because he’s crying about the wound that won’t stop bleeding. He thinks it’s a kind gesture, but doesn’t understand the gravity of it. Lyra is sitting there in silence thinking what the fuck. I don’t think they’ve discussed much of the taboo of human-daemon interaction in the show, which is what they would have needed to do to make the scene feel less clunky.

They showed it in this scene (show, don't tell) when Lyra audibly gasps when Pan touches Will and he says (paraphrase) what did he do, Lyra says (paraphrase) in my world people don't touch other people's daemons. It's made explicit for viewers. Perhaps the writer and director decided that having a cute red panda licking a savagely bleeding wound wasn't quite the visual they were after here.

I'm sorry you didn't like the scene but it worked fine for me and was true to the book.

[Rippounet]

Eh... I'm in the minority but I really liked the exposition

Having not read the books, there are things I don't get, or am unsure of, here or there.

The exposition clarified several things at once and raised the stakes a bit, giving everything more of an epic twist.

Honestly, without the exposition, I'm not sure the fight for the knife would have worked for me.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

4 hours ago, Isis said:

They showed it in this scene (show, don't tell) when Lyra audibly gasps when Pan touches Will and he says (paraphrase) what did he do, Lyra says (paraphrase) in my world people don't touch other people's daemons. It's made explicit for viewers. Perhaps the writer and director decided that having a cute red panda licking a savagely bleeding wound wasn't quite the visual they were after here.

I'm sorry you didn't like the scene but it worked fine for me and was true to the book.

Yes I know that’s what they were showing, it just felt a bit forced for me. I’m just saying that to make it feel less wooden, they’d have had to spend more time on the concept earlier. The scene works better in the book because the reader already understands that Pan touching Will’s hand is a big deal, rather than having it explained at the time.

 

To be clear, obviously TV is a much more compressed medium, and I don’t really have a suggestion for improving this aspect that wouldn’t slow the show down further.

[sifth]

So I started watching this show earlier this week. Are all the scenes that take place on Earth filler because they feel like filler? 

[baxus]

40 minutes ago, sifth said:

So I started watching this show earlier this week. Are all the scenes that take place on Earth filler because they feel like filler? 

They start making sense, don't worry.

Spoiler

Especially in season 2.

 

[Denvek]

6 hours ago, sifth said:

So I started watching this show earlier this week. Are all the scenes that take place on Earth filler because they feel like filler? 

Not entirely, but the adaptation is having to balance an entire book's worth of story for Lyra with a few chapters for Will, so that they don't have to spend the first 2 or 3 episodes of season 2 with absolutely no season 1 characters showing up. So Will's side of the Season 1 story is expanded from what's in the book.

[williamjm]

8 hours ago, sifth said:

So I started watching this show earlier this week. Are all the scenes that take place on Earth filler because they feel like filler? 

Those scenes are expanded from the early chapters of the second book, Will doesn't appear in the first book although he's very important to the second and third books.

[sifth]

Thanks for the info. I like the show well enough, but those "meanwhile on Earth" scenes kind of ruin the pacing of the story for me. I hope this is fixed when I start season 2, tomorrow.

They kind of remind me of the filler Earth scenes from season 1 of the Expanse.

[sifth]

I have to say, I liked the first episode of season 2, more so than any of the episodes in season 1.