Grazdan's Holiday and Official Celebrations in Martinworld

[TheLastWolf]

All this because of some poster wanting to celebrate the conquest and me opposing it. Really fantastic ideas and opinions tho

[broken one]

5 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I think what's more important is how you win people over to bring the kingdoms together...not just the fact that it's One Ruler to Rule Them All. Aegon and successors kept hitting things with hammers. 

Modern states consist of former small organisms, unified by force, diplomacy and marriage. mostly by mix of it all (lack of dragons ). Periods of division are not considered as happy times for many reasons. Unification was often followed by economic growth an population growth. We know it happened in westeros. I try to imagine six states where Poland is, or 10 states in place of UK. Or hundreds of them on the subcontinent. Somehow I cannot visualise how it would work.  I understand the post colonial trauma and the fact that positive effects of this sort of origins are, to put it mildly, disputable. but westeros has nothing to do with it imo. it is typical middle ages european case. I think after 100 years of such unification the effect matters, not how it was done. Moreover I see such celebrations as state / political thing, not spontaneus folk feast (the latter have mostly religious origins as far as I know).

I see some people have problem with the word 'conquest' for understandable reasons. We could replace it with 'unification'.

5 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

Yes. They were doing that, in their own land, the Targs take resources away from one land and keep them in their own.

Well, all the goods were hidden under five chairs, targs stuffed them under one. 99% of population got nothing of it anyway XD jokes aside, the old dude invested a lot in roads. I risk a claim that building of KL was good for the whole realm too. Targs should have crushed the great lords, build kings castles all over the land and create kings administration...  but then there would be completely different story

5 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

The Targs were no foreigners to the crownlands, but they were foreigners to the Reach, the North, the Riverlands, the Vale, the Iron Islands, the Stormlands, the Westerlands and Dorne.

 only 3 of them, for a 1 generation time span.

[Rose of Red Lake]

7 minutes ago, broken one said:

Modern states consist of former small organisms, unified by force, diplomacy and marriage. mostly by mix of it all (lack of dragons ). Periods of division are not considered as happy times for many reasons. Unification was often followed by economic growth an population growth. We know it happened in westeros. I try to imagine six states where Poland is, or 10 states in place of UK. Or hundreds of them on the subcontinent. Somehow I cannot visualise how it would work.  I understand the post colonial trauma and the fact that positive effects of this sort of origins are, to put it mildly, disputable. but westeros has nothing to do with it imo. it is typical middle ages european case. I think after 100 years of such unification the effect matters, not how it was done. Moreover I see such celebrations as state / political thing, not spontaneus folk feast (the latter have mostly religious origins as far as I know).

I see some people have problem with the word 'conquest' for understandable reasons. We could replace it with 'unification'.

I don't see the books as "medieval history," I see it as story and tropes. If unification was the end goal, we'd be rooting for the Empire in Star Wars. Even though they have a lot of "cool" characters, you know they're still the bad guys who want to unite the galaxy. In story terms, this is who the Targaryens represent in Westeros--although they are considerably more grey than the Empire (thank god).

The Targaryen regime failed at unification; they couldn't hold it together because they used fear. Picture Theon insisting he's king of Winterfell even though the locals are like "da fuq?" Replace Theon with Daenerys. Repeat.

It's just not tenable. If you want people to unify, you have to use other methods and respect the fact that they have a right to reject you if you push too hard. People will only unify if they want to.

I just find so many examples in the books of a rejection of the Targaryen model. The Valyrian Freehold didn't even have a single king, and Westeros had four thousand years of peace without a Targaryen even stepping foot on the continent. 

[The Grey Wolf]

@Rose of Red Lake

That just isn't true.

Dawn Age: Children of the Forest fought with the Giants since the former call the latter "their bane and brothers", not to mention that giant found dead from obsidian arrows

Pre-Pact: First Men fought the Children

Post-Pact: First Men fought First Men (and if those ballads about the Starks, Durran the Dour, etc. are to be believed the Giants as well as the Children somehow)

Andal Invasion: First Men fought First Men with Andal help and sometimes banded together to fight Andals

Post-Andal Invasion: Everyone fought everyone

Post-Rhoynar Conquest/Migration/Invasion: Everyone fought everyone

The only time there wasn't a war going on somewhere in Westeros was under Targaryens like Jaehaerys I, Viserys I, etc.

[Aline de Gavrillac]

On 11/26/2020 at 6:51 PM, CamiloRP said:

There's a day for each of the Seven save for the Stranger, if I'm not mistaken.

I don't recall that.  

On 11/27/2020 at 12:05 AM, Prince Rhaego Targaryen said:

Happy Thanksgiving in our world.  To all of you.  

The Conquest is remembered but is it considered an official holiday.  I don't know but it should be.  

There may not be an official celebration but the year of the conquest is honored by the calendar.  The calendar of the kingdom begins with the conquest.  That's a better way to honor the Targaryens and celebrate their arrival.

[TheLastWolf]

3 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

I don't recall that.  

Remember Margaery in her Maidens day whites. Some Cersei POV from Feast. How she was thinking Marg and her gang (who aren't maids in her eyes) were cheating the Faith. 

3 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

That's a better way to honor the Targaryens and celebrate their arrival.

Another imperialist authoritarian