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Am I the only one hoping Jon and Dany doesn't become a thing?


Alyn Oakenfist

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12 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

You sure? they do hate bastards, and think Northerners are savage demon worshipers.

Not all of them. There are more Meribalds than Pycelle types since the majority lives with the smallfolk and are comprised of commoners. Since the ones in power and position among the Faith are usually High born, they are contemptuous of bastards. But with the advent of the High Sparrow and faith militant (common folk majority ) things are changing. 

As to the savage demon worshipers, the hatred is more on the new Red Rahloo which is radical and practices human sacrifices to fire than the passive old gods tree worship of the north which has co existed for millennia. And there are Septons like Meribald and more who don't hate the north gods, just loyal to their own southron ones. Blackwoods keep the old gods in the south. 

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8 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Nice choice of words

Yes. What. How else can we describe creatures like Drogo and Daario and possibly Euron. In fact, it's an insult to animals and all other non humans to label those scum as 'whatever

Drogo wasn't scum, he was a result of his culture, and in fact quite considered for that specific culture. Few Westerosi lords would accept a 'no' from their wife on their wedding night. If you or I were born into Dothraki culture it's really likely that we would be as bad or worse than him. Context matters.

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8 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Not all of them. There are more Meribalds than Pycelle types since the majority lives with the smallfolk and are comprised of commoners. Since the ones in power and position among the Faith are usually High born, they are contemptuous of bastards. But with the advent of the High Sparrow and faith militant (common folk majority ) things are changing. 

As to the savage demon worshipers, the hatred is more on the new Red Rahloo which is radical and practices human sacrifices to fire than the passive old gods tree worship of the north which has co existed for millennia. And there are Septons like Meribald and more who don't hate the north gods, just loyal to their own southron ones. Blackwoods keep the old gods in the south. 

Maribald is an exception. The general view of the Faith (and most of Westeros for the first part) is that bastards are bad and the Old Gods are a savage religion, uncivilized.

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6 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

Drogo wasn't scum, he was a result of his culture, and in fact quite considered for that specific culture. Few Westerosi lords would accept a 'no' from their wife on their wedding night. If you or I were born into Dothraki culture it's really likely that we would be as bad or worse than him. Context matters.

And readers tend to prejudiced against Daario more for his dyed hair and gold teeth, than for anything he has actually done..  I remember one poster calling him a "walking STD", arguing Dany could do much better for herself.

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54 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

Drogo wasn't scum, he was a result of his culture, and in fact quite considered for that specific culture.

Sure, Kraznys was born into Slavers Bay culture, and according to its standards he is very decent man. For some obscure reason he is not very popular among readers XD

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1 hour ago, CamiloRP said:

Drogo wasn't scum, he was a result of his culture, and in fact quite considered for that specific culture. Few Westerosi lords would accept a 'no' from their wife on their wedding night. If you or I were born into Dothraki culture it's really likely that we would be as bad or worse than him. Context matters.

He was a rapist and a slaver, fuck culture, talk about basic human decency, of which most of the Dothraki, but especially Drogo seem to have none.

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21 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

He was a rapist and a slaver, fuck culture, talk about basic human decency, of which most of the Dothraki, but especially Drogo seem to have none.

Oh great, racism.

Place yourself on that context, do you think you'd be any better?

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19 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

Oh great, racism.

Place yourself on that context, do you think you'd be any better?

If the Dothraki have a virtue (at least in most peoples' eyes) it is courage.  That distinguishes them from the Great/Wise/Good Masters.  The latter are also far better educated, and much more aware that much of the world despises them for their actions.  Kraznys positively revels in his own evil.  

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24 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

Oh great, racism.

Place yourself on that context, do you think you'd be any better?

It's a nation/culture/population that committed several genocides (the Tall Men, the Qartheen and the Essarians just the ones that come to mind), that is the no 1. supplier of slaves for the slave markets, it praises rape and murder, how could it not lack basic human decency. I'm not saying everybody is evil, but this is a case bordering on Nazi Germany (only difference is, the nazis didn't fully exterminate anybody, the dothraki did) and the population there. If you are complacent in all that murder, raping, slaving and genocide, you are supporting evil, and if you are leading it, then you ARE evil.

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15 minutes ago, SeanF said:

If the Dothraki have a virtue (at least in most peoples' eyes) it is courage.  That distinguishes them from the Great/Wise/Good Masters.  The latter are also far better educated, and much more aware that much of the world despises them for their actions.  Kraznys positively revels in his own evil.  

Precisely. Kraznys is also one of the persons maintaining the status quo, he could diminish slavery if he wanted, and he is part of a society that isn't purely in favor of slavery, while Drogo despite being Khal can't change Dothraki customs, his men wouldn't follow him if he stopped slavery, he would just be replaced by someone else who keeps tradition, and all Dothraki support their customs, there's no one opposing it, that we know off.

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3 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

Precisely. Kraznys is also one of the persons maintaining the status quo, he could diminish slavery if he wanted, and he is part of a society that isn't purely in favor of slavery, while Drogo despite being Khal can't change Dothraki customs, his men wouldn't follow him if he stopped slavery, he would just be replaced by someone else who keeps tradition, and all Dothraki support their customs, there's no one opposing it, that we know off.

If Drogo really gave a fuck, he shouldn't have become Khal. But he doesn't. He is 100% guilty of the many crimes committed under his watch.

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7 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

It's a nation/culture/population that committed several genocides (the Tall Men, the Qartheen and the Essarians just the ones that come to mind), that is the no 1. supplier of slaves for the slave markets, it praises rape and murder, how could it not lack basic human decency. I'm not saying everybody is evil, but this is a case bordering on Nazi Germany (only difference is, the nazis didn't fully exterminate anybody, the dothraki did) and the population there. If you are complacent in all that murder, raping, slaving and genocide, you are supporting evil, and if you are leading it, then you ARE evil.

Answer my question dude. There's no opportunity in Dothraki culture to think about the issues of slavery and genocide, it's just the way it's done and the way it's always been done. Dothraki lack the fundamental privilege the Slavers of Yunkai and the Germans had to understand what they're actually doing, if your religion, traditions and rulers all say the same thing and have been saying the same thing since the done of time, with no one actually opposing it, then it must be true.

Is Eddard an asshole for executing a prisoner in the first chapter? No, because he doesn't have the same opportunities as us to understand that it is wrong, and his religion, society and rulers have always said it is an okay thing to do.

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2 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

If Drogo really gave a fuck, he shouldn't have become Khal. But he doesn't. He is 100% guilty of the many crimes committed under his watch.

I'm not saying he cares about this things, in fact I'm all but sure he doesn't, and I explained why, he doesn't have the opportunity to consider this issues. All I was saying is that his situation and that of Kraznys are not equivalent.

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2 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

Answer my question dude. There's no opportunity in Dothraki culture to think about the issues of slavery and genocide, it's just the way it's done and the way it's always been done. Dothraki lack the fundamental privilege the Slavers of Yunkai and the Germans had to understand what they're actually doing, if your religion, traditions and rulers all say the same thing and have been saying the same thing since the done of time, with no one actually opposing it, then it must be true.

Is Eddard an asshole for executing a prisoner in the first chapter? No, because he doesn't have the same opportunities as us to understand that it is wrong, and his religion, society and rulers have always said it is an okay thing to do.

There's culture and religion, and then there's having a shred of human empathy. The Dothraki don't. Sure culture molds morality, but not to the point that we should excuse murder, rape and genocide

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1 minute ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

There's culture and religion, and then there's having a shred of human empathy. The Dothraki don't. Sure culture molds morality, but not to the point that we should excuse murder, rape and genocide

Claiming that an entire group of people doesn't have a shred of human empathy is racist. You're reducing them to 'not human'. Specially since we know little of the Dothraki and we still saw empathy in them.

What do you think the Dothraki don't have empathy tho? Is it just a coincidence? Is it something in their blood that makes them worse? or is it because of culture? Ask yourself why you keep ignoring my question: Would you be any different than Drogo if you where in his situation? You know why you are ignoring it, because you know you probably wouldn't, because culture shapes you. 

I'm not excusing murder, rape and genocide tho. I'm just saying that things are a bit more complex, and the Dothraki don't have the same privilege as you and I, or Westerosi, Braavosi, Yunkai or whatever, to fully understand why what thy are doing is wrong. Jon, Ned, Robb and most characters have committed murder, does that make them scum? Almost all Freefolk men are rapist, does this make them scum? All Westerosi are sexist and homophobic, does this make them scum? No, you know why? because they don't have the privilege of understanding the wrong in this actions, everything around them tells them that all this things are okay, so they don't question them.

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3 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

don't have the same privilege as you and I, or Westerosi, Braavosi, Yunkai or whatever, to fully understand why what thy are doing is wrong

And I'm saying they don't. You don't need a culture to understand murder and rape are wrong, you just need a shred of empathy.

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2 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

And I'm saying they don't. You don't need a culture to understand murder and rape are wrong, you just need a shred of empathy.

Would you be different then?

Why do you think all Dothraki don't have empathy? What's the reason?

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2 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

Drogo wasn't scum, he was a result of his culture, and in fact quite considered for that specific culture. Few Westerosi lords would accept a 'no' from their wife on their wedding night. If you or I were born into Dothraki culture it's really likely that we would be as bad or worse than him. Context matters.

He belongs to a group of people who revel in slaughter, pillaging, murder, rape and more. His culture is fucked up. As a byproduct he too is. Same with Slaver's Bay's good masters and such. 

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