Maithanet Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 26 minutes ago, dbunting said: I just view TE's like most people view RB's. There is rarely one picked that high who turn out to be worth it, but there are usually ones drafted later who do better. And yes it kind of does matter who picks someone. Bad GM's and talent evaluators draft players out of order plenty of times. That's odd, because the difference between the best and an average TE is pretty stark in terms of production. If a team loses a guy like Gronk or Kelce to injury, the guy taking his place never comes close to his production. In contrast, we often find that league leading running backs go down, and then the backup steps in without missing a beat. Like when Laveon Bell was considered the best RB in football, and then Conner stepped in and was prettymuch just as good. Or the Chiefs replacing Kareem Hunt with rb by committee. And that's just off the top of my head in the past two years. Has it ever happened where a pro bowl TE was injured or left the team, and then a relative no-name replaced that production? Because I can't think of any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Oops, I didn't realize this was the college football thread. This is really an NFL discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 16 hours ago, Nictarion said: Pitts is not only an elite TE prospect, he’s an elite receiving prospect in general. He’s the highest graded (95.9) college pass catcher in the PFF era (since 2014). Kid is a special, special talent. And if he drops because of an outdated way of thinking about the position I’m sure a lot of GM’s are going to regret passing on him. Funny part is I saw a mock with him going to Dallas and was like nooooo, we need defense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 15 hours ago, Maithanet said: That's odd, because the difference between the best and an average TE is pretty stark in terms of production. If a team loses a guy like Gronk or Kelce to injury, the guy taking his place never comes close to his production. In contrast, we often find that league leading running backs go down, and then the backup steps in without missing a beat. Like when Laveon Bell was considered the best RB in football, and then Conner stepped in and was prettymuch just as good. Or the Chiefs replacing Kareem Hunt with rb by committee. And that's just off the top of my head in the past two years. Has it ever happened where a pro bowl TE was injured or left the team, and then a relative no-name replaced that production? Because I can't think of any. The discussion isn't established TE's who are elite, it's do you draft a TE in the top ten. The difference between TE's drafted in top ten or drafted in 2-3 rounds is also stark, favoring the later picks. I will say that if he is generational and that is what makes sense for a team, then so be it. But your system better use him like he is your #1 option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 3 hours ago, dbunting said: The discussion isn't established TE's who are elite, it's do you draft a TE in the top ten. The difference between TE's drafted in top ten or drafted in 2-3 rounds is also stark, favoring the later picks. I will say that if he is generational and that is what makes sense for a team, then so be it. But your system better use him like he is your #1 option. I would agree that teams have been bad at evaluating and drafting tight ends in the past ten years, and I don't have a good explanation for that. Kittle in particular is a fairly baffling miss, although his skills as a receiving threat really flourished once he went pro. But given the position's growing importance in the modern game, it makes sense that teams would want to jump on a talent that checks all the boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 5, 2021 Author Share Posted January 5, 2021 41 minutes ago, Maithanet said: I would agree that teams have been bad at evaluating and drafting tight ends in the past ten years, and I don't have a good explanation for that. Kittle in particular is a fairly baffling miss, although his skills as a receiving threat really flourished once he went pro. But given the position's growing importance in the modern game, it makes sense that teams would want to jump on a talent that checks all the boxes. Waller was the second best TE this season and was a sixth round pick. TEs are like RBs. You can find gems in later rounds. There isn’t a hard rule that you shouldn’t draft either position high, but if you do, you better already have a stacked roster because you’d normally be better off trading back and using one of the additional picks on the position later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Waller was the second best TE this season and was a sixth round pick. Wallers example is even more ridiculous since he was drafted by Baltimore, and did very little before being suspended for peds and released. It's only on his second team that he has grown into a pro bowler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 46 minutes ago, Maithanet said: Kittle in particular is a fairly baffling miss, although his skills as a receiving threat really flourished once he went pro. Kittle dropped in large part due to his injury history which, well, has turned out to be quite the valid indicator unfortunately. Combined with his limited production - he only had 48 receptions in 25 games throughout his college career - and it's not too surprising. Vernon Davis was one of the highest drafted TEs ever. While he never quite reached his potential, I certainly don't regret that pick. Skimming through this list, I'd say the handful of tight ends drafted in the first half of the first round actually have a pretty damn impressive track record/success rate dating back to Tony Gonzalez, compared to most other positions. (Admittedly I did not know who TJ Hockenson was until I clicked that link, but I did recognize the rest.) I'd say Pitts undoubtedly belongs in that group and subsequently warrants a top 10 pick if the fit is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 5, 2021 Author Share Posted January 5, 2021 13 minutes ago, Maithanet said: Wallers example is even more ridiculous since he was drafted by Baltimore, and did very little before being suspended for peds and released. It's only on his second team that he has grown into a pro bowler. Waller is an unfair outlier, but he just highlights how I think you can fill that position later in the draft or just by looking at a lot of college power forwards with no clear pro careers in basketball. If I have a top 10 pick I am drafting a QB, an edge rusher, a CB a lineman or I’m trading out. Those are really the only positions that merit such a high pick unless you already have all the positions covered and there’s some prospect you just can’t pass on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 12, 2021 Author Share Posted January 12, 2021 Surprised there's no action in here given the championship game. Smith just looks so much faster than anyone on Ohio St.'s D. His burst is Jacksonesque. ETA: And seconds after I posted this, he's wide open flying down the field for his third TD in the first half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 Smith putting on a clinic. Miami should reunite him and Tua. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PyroclasticFlow Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 I believe he’s north of 200yds receiving, just ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 12, 2021 Author Share Posted January 12, 2021 17 minutes ago, Nictarion said: Smith putting on a clinic. Miami should reunite him and Tua. Isn't there another WR on the team that's draft eligible that's graded higher than him? I agree Miami should use that pick on a WR though if they don't trade back a couple of spots for a team thirsty for a QB as I believe there are now four expected to go in or around the top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 12, 2021 Author Share Posted January 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, PyroclasticFlow said: I believe he’s north of 200yds receiving, just ridiculous 12 catches, 215 yards and 3 TDs in a half is fucking nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PyroclasticFlow Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 HIs release off the line, his route running is near flawless. His separation speed though, damn. It’s not like it’s Tyreek Hill fast, he just goes. Basically like what you said if Lamar was a wideout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 12, 2021 Author Share Posted January 12, 2021 Yeah, he's not a 4.2 guy like Cheetah, but that's not even the best part of his skill set. It's that he doesn't seem to lose any speed when he goes up for a ball in stride. When he lands he's back to full speed in a step or two. Idk what Smith's measurables are exactly, but he didn't look blinding in the open field. What stands out is how once he's parallel with a defender he's behind them and gone in a split second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 If Smith is done for the night he’s going to come up just 6 yards short of Ja’Marr Chase’s NCG record for yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 12, 2021 Author Share Posted January 12, 2021 A tradition unlike any other, the Big Ten getting embarrassed in a championship game..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 Smith only runs a 4.49 40. Which is decent but for someone at that speed and spright of frame, I'm guessing he's never gonna be a Steve Smith or Tyreke Hill on the next level. Nevertheless helluva NC game and great career at Alabama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 8 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: Isn't there another WR on the team that's draft eligible that's graded higher than him? I agree Miami should use that pick on a WR though if they don't trade back a couple of spots for a team thirsty for a QB as I believe there are now four expected to go in or around the top 10. Yes, Waddle grades out higher before his injury earlier this season. That was one of the ridiculous arguments that Jimbo made when lobbying for aTm to get in the playoffs. No one else had to play them with Waddle, so that’s why they got beat so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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